Clutchless Shifting
07-17-2005, 09:27 AM
#1
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Location: Centennial,CO
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Clutchless Shifting
It feels so smooth but has to rub the gears down after time. Let's get this straight. Is it eating away my tranny or what? Some say no and some say yes. Let's hear about it..... 
07-17-2005, 11:23 AM
#3
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Location: toronto,ON
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
there is no rite or wrong way....if its shifting ur doin it rite....ur clutch plates r designed to take a beating, but clutchless shifting will definately wear them out a little quicker
07-17-2005, 05:19 PM
#6
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
Originally Posted by majik
there is no rite or wrong way....if its shifting ur doin it rite....ur clutch plates r designed to take a beating, but clutchless shifting will definately wear them out a little quicker
clutch plates have nothing to do with it
07-18-2005, 03:46 PM
#8
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Location: Brockton, MA
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
nope, saves the clutch and if it's feels smooth it's good. It's when you hear grinding it's bad, I've been going 17k on a 750 without the clutch, and a lot of clutchless downshifts in there to.
07-18-2005, 03:55 PM
#9
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
never have tried .. i dont mind hittin the clutch when i had my old bike .. but my friend whos a supposd know it all about everything said it does no daamage whatsoever he was like watch i'll show you .. yet hes never riden a day in his life.. i realyl want this kid to get a bike so i can see him shithimself
said it does no daamage whatsoever he was like watch i'll show you .. yet hes never riden a day in his life.. i realyl want this kid to get a bike so i can see him shithimself 
07-19-2005, 02:35 AM
#11
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
ok, it uses the clutch LESS. it SAVES your cluth cause there is no disengagement/engagement.
why do you think freightliners/pertebilts etc do this. cause clutches are expensive. it scalled rev matching and guess what if you have lets say a gear spinning at 5k, and you rev math the next at 5k, there is NO friction.
now of course theres no one perfect enuff to match to the exact rev, but it technically wears the gears, but oh well i do it anyways
why do you think freightliners/pertebilts etc do this. cause clutches are expensive. it scalled rev matching and guess what if you have lets say a gear spinning at 5k, and you rev math the next at 5k, there is NO friction.
now of course theres no one perfect enuff to match to the exact rev, but it technically wears the gears, but oh well i do it anyways
07-19-2005, 02:43 AM
#12
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
in response the the posts ABOVE the last one from lemmebe who jumped me!
yes but trucks dont have any form of auto-syncro! MOST bikes DO! Fukk the clutch plates you may save by like 50 miles, if you hit it wrong or too much you can bend a shift fork and then its bye bye tranny. Unless you wanna practicaly lay out enough to buy a new motor to fix them. NOT WORTH IT! Just remember, clutching wheelies is pretty hard on the clutch and even THAT wont wear it out much faster than normal use. Unless you do that wrong too............
Fox
yes but trucks dont have any form of auto-syncro! MOST bikes DO! Fukk the clutch plates you may save by like 50 miles, if you hit it wrong or too much you can bend a shift fork and then its bye bye tranny. Unless you wanna practicaly lay out enough to buy a new motor to fix them. NOT WORTH IT! Just remember, clutching wheelies is pretty hard on the clutch and even THAT wont wear it out much faster than normal use. Unless you do that wrong too............
Fox
07-19-2005, 01:58 PM
#16
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
I'll end this right now.
THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. YES. period. If you clutchless shift you WILL ruin your gears. I've been there done that and it doesn't take a lot of clutchless shifting. It doesn't feel like your doing any damage but believe me you are. If you have the tools and knowledge it will take you at least 2 weeks and cost around 500.00. If you don't have the tools and take it to a shop your looking at around 2000.00 and up. DON'T CLUTCHLESS SHIFT,,,plus there is no reason too unless you drag race and if so then get and ignition interupter so there isn't direct power going to the tranny when you do it.
Just think about it for a sec ok, the clutch exists for a reason not just for show or for wheelies. The purpose of a clutch is to take power away from the transmission so the gears can slip into place without damage. If you are on the gas and "burp the throttle" there is still direct power to the transmission your engine is spinning at 7000 plus rpm, those gears are rotating faster yet it doesn't take lng to shave off or worse yet round the corners of the gear dogs. Once those corners are rounded then one day in the very near future your gear will not be able to stay in place under power and it will pop out causing what feels like a false nutral. During that slight moment of "popping" out the gear smacks against the shift fork causing the shift fork to shave, bend, brake, score. Either way you ruin it. more than likly it will notch the shift drum and with each time you ride it from there on it will get worse and strip you of your confidence in your machine.
DONT DO IT
THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. YES. period. If you clutchless shift you WILL ruin your gears. I've been there done that and it doesn't take a lot of clutchless shifting. It doesn't feel like your doing any damage but believe me you are. If you have the tools and knowledge it will take you at least 2 weeks and cost around 500.00. If you don't have the tools and take it to a shop your looking at around 2000.00 and up. DON'T CLUTCHLESS SHIFT,,,plus there is no reason too unless you drag race and if so then get and ignition interupter so there isn't direct power going to the tranny when you do it.
Just think about it for a sec ok, the clutch exists for a reason not just for show or for wheelies. The purpose of a clutch is to take power away from the transmission so the gears can slip into place without damage. If you are on the gas and "burp the throttle" there is still direct power to the transmission your engine is spinning at 7000 plus rpm, those gears are rotating faster yet it doesn't take lng to shave off or worse yet round the corners of the gear dogs. Once those corners are rounded then one day in the very near future your gear will not be able to stay in place under power and it will pop out causing what feels like a false nutral. During that slight moment of "popping" out the gear smacks against the shift fork causing the shift fork to shave, bend, brake, score. Either way you ruin it. more than likly it will notch the shift drum and with each time you ride it from there on it will get worse and strip you of your confidence in your machine.
DONT DO IT
07-19-2005, 02:13 PM
#17
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Re: Clutchless Shifting
DAMN I hate when this comes up. Cause for some reason nobody believes me or they want to argue. I've been wrenching for a long time now and I know what I'm talking about. One more thing to help you make up your mind if I haven't talked you out of this yet. Sometimes you can get away with doing this IN OTHER VEHICALS. why it's a lot easier to RPM match with a car but these bikes, no in fact HELL NO they rev to quick, to high, and with too much power yes 600s are included. Second, because of the superbike wars all the companies for the last 10 years have been making everything lighter on these bikes the transmission is no exception. If you compair the shift forks in our transmissions to those in say,,,a harley, the Harley's shift forks are 3 times as thick and a lot more durable. same with gears and drum and shift fork shaft even the bolts of our bikes are lighter talk to someone who has worked on thier bike a lot. Most of us have broken our fair share of bolts. USE THE CLUTCH there is no reason to not use it. YOU CAN SHIFT WITH THE CLUTCH ON ONE WHEEL IF YOU REALLY NEED TOO. Kyle woods uses the clutch because he has made the mistake I have, don't make the mistake I made,,, it was expensive, time consuming, and I lost a good 3 months out of the season.
07-20-2005, 12:15 AM
#18
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Location: torrance,ca
Posts: 105
Re: Clutchless Shifting
Originally Posted by KungFu954
I'll end this right now.
THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. YES. period. If you clutchless shift you WILL ruin your gears. I've been there done that and it doesn't take a lot of clutchless shifting. It doesn't feel like your doing any damage but believe me you are. If you have the tools and knowledge it will take you at least 2 weeks and cost around 500.00. If you don't have the tools and take it to a shop your looking at around 2000.00 and up. DON'T CLUTCHLESS SHIFT,,,plus there is no reason too unless you drag race and if so then get and ignition interupter so there isn't direct power going to the tranny when you do it.
Just think about it for a sec ok, the clutch exists for a reason not just for show or for wheelies. The purpose of a clutch is to take power away from the transmission so the gears can slip into place without damage. If you are on the gas and "burp the throttle" there is still direct power to the transmission your engine is spinning at 7000 plus rpm, those gears are rotating faster yet it doesn't take lng to shave off or worse yet round the corners of the gear dogs. Once those corners are rounded then one day in the very near future your gear will not be able to stay in place under power and it will pop out causing what feels like a false nutral. During that slight moment of "popping" out the gear smacks against the shift fork causing the shift fork to shave, bend, brake, score. Either way you ruin it. more than likly it will notch the shift drum and with each time you ride it from there on it will get worse and strip you of your confidence in your machine.
DONT DO IT
THE ANSWER IS YES. YES. YES. period. If you clutchless shift you WILL ruin your gears. I've been there done that and it doesn't take a lot of clutchless shifting. It doesn't feel like your doing any damage but believe me you are. If you have the tools and knowledge it will take you at least 2 weeks and cost around 500.00. If you don't have the tools and take it to a shop your looking at around 2000.00 and up. DON'T CLUTCHLESS SHIFT,,,plus there is no reason too unless you drag race and if so then get and ignition interupter so there isn't direct power going to the tranny when you do it.
Just think about it for a sec ok, the clutch exists for a reason not just for show or for wheelies. The purpose of a clutch is to take power away from the transmission so the gears can slip into place without damage. If you are on the gas and "burp the throttle" there is still direct power to the transmission your engine is spinning at 7000 plus rpm, those gears are rotating faster yet it doesn't take lng to shave off or worse yet round the corners of the gear dogs. Once those corners are rounded then one day in the very near future your gear will not be able to stay in place under power and it will pop out causing what feels like a false nutral. During that slight moment of "popping" out the gear smacks against the shift fork causing the shift fork to shave, bend, brake, score. Either way you ruin it. more than likly it will notch the shift drum and with each time you ride it from there on it will get worse and strip you of your confidence in your machine.
DONT DO IT
You don't blip the throttle when up shifting. Back shifting is when you need to blip in order to match engine RPM with rear wheel speed. Simple.
It works and it does not do anymore additional damage.
Shift drums, gear dogs/forks get far more abuse when shifts are done sloppy / not precise with clutch.
But hey don't take my word for it. Post up the same question at www.wera.com
07-20-2005, 01:13 AM
#20
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Location: Hesperia, CA
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Posts: 478
Re: Clutchless Shifting
Originally Posted by G97
This is 100% incorrect. Done proper clutchless upshifts do not in any way damage the tranny and at the same time saves wear on the clutch. You simply pre-load the shift lever a bit and roll off the throttle, and shift. The roll off reduces the force on the tranny and the gears will engage nice and smooth with no additional wear.
You don't blip the throttle when up shifting. Back shifting is when you need to blip in order to match engine RPM with rear wheel speed. Simple.
It works and it does not do anymore additional damage.
Shift drums, gear dogs/forks get far more abuse when shifts are done sloppy / not precise with clutch.
But hey don't take my word for it. Post up the same question at www.wera.com
You don't blip the throttle when up shifting. Back shifting is when you need to blip in order to match engine RPM with rear wheel speed. Simple.
It works and it does not do anymore additional damage.
Shift drums, gear dogs/forks get far more abuse when shifts are done sloppy / not precise with clutch.
But hey don't take my word for it. Post up the same question at www.wera.com
Dude, I used to run in WERA and recently WSMC. That pretty much means a higher level of bike controll in terms of shifting and downshifting, power management and rpm matching. MOST riders that can bust out a BAD *** no handed circle wheelie probly would get their *** handed to them by a NOVICE in either of the formentioned race clubs on a track day. This is oviously because of differences in riding style. Most knee draggers only do half assed wheelies because you learn techniques to PREVENT them while racing. I think most average daily riders and even most stunters probly dont have the controll for THIS type of riding because its not their style and does no do anything for the stunting or freeway commuting that they do. So I just belive that these average riders or most stunt riders will do more harm than good if the DONT shift using the clutch. Now if you ran in WERA you have probly heard this before at track school and should know exactly what Im on about.
Laterz,
Fox 2005 WSMC provisional expert division #13
