Molybdenum Disulfide
07-22-2003, 02:23 AM
#1
D-Aces Stunt Pimp
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin
Age: 47
Posts: 406
Molybdenum Disulfide
MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE That is what my dad told me a little bit about last night, he designs and builds robots, conveyers and other factory machines and he commonly needs to use this **** cuz nothing else will handle the loads of friction. Then I remembered when I used to work at an automotive engine rebuilt shop molybdenum disulfide grease was used religiously on all motors because they swore it was supposed to extend the life of the engine by like triple. My dad also informed me that they blend this stuff in motor oils now.Basically molybdenum disulfide is something that is a better lubricant than ANYTHING and it does not come off and does not wear out...perfect for 12's when your engine is starving for oil and blowing up for the fifth time that week.
I am starting to sound like a late night commercial about a car with no oil and sand in the oil pan, but this could really be sweet.
I am going to call a few of the major oil companies within the next few days if I get a chance, (kind of busy) and see what they say about it, see if there are any certain things to watch out for. Everything I found on the net said it does work and that it is not advertised to the public much because it is not really needed for most people. Most people if they are using an engine it is getting a constant supply of oil so why would they need something to "cling" to the vital engine parts. Also any engine oil will do the job needed for average engine loads. Us Stunters are the **** and we definitely could use it.
www.d-aces.com
Here are a couple links that I found that explain it in english.
http://www.beslub.com/moly.htm
http://www.mrmoly.com/about_moly.html
http://www.chemsol.com/lubricants.html
http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/neogard.htm
07-23-2003, 03:45 PM
#5
bp chaser
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LI, NY and I drive in Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 85,366
The reason they dont use it for motorcycle oil is because of the wet clutches. That **** is so slippery that the clutch plates wont grab properly. On a bike with a dry clutch like a ducati that would be pimp.
07-23-2003, 10:50 PM
#6
D-Aces Stunt Pimp
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin
Age: 47
Posts: 406
I will try to keep this as short as I can.
So after a few phone calls I realized it does not pay to talk to anyone within any of the oil companies unless it is one of the lab technicians, they are the only ones that truly know anything and they are hard to get in contact with. I have talked to several companies, but I have only talked with the technicians at Mobil 1 and Red Line Synthetic Oil so far. I have to say that both tech's at each place know their ****, but each one had a differences in opinion.
As for the statement from MikeM, I never once thought about the clutch but the tech's did not either. Not sure if it really matters or not, I would think that they would have said something. Mobil 1 has a molybdenum oil made for bikes, I will call tomorrow and see what I can find out on this.
The guy from Red Line stated this: Molybdenum is not the best answer for an engine starving of oil. Molybdenum is not the best for lubrication of sliding surfaces, like piston walls and rod bearings but more for roller bearings like the crankshaft bearings and trany gears. (He explained why, but honestly it was confusing, not sure if I understand or believe him 100%). The most important ingredient is to have ester(spelling?). Ester is also a lubrication that is attracted to metal and will stay in the places you need it when the engine is getting no oil. Very few companies use ester anymore because it is much to expensive and not needed because of the synthetic oils that are made today. They are just as good without it for all applications except for an engine starving of oil. A regular synthetic oil will offer very little lubrication once the oil pressure is gone(12Oclock's), an oil with higher concentration of ester will.
He said he knows a lot of people will laugh at this, but he said use Prolong with an ester oil. He stated: On the negative side Prolong actually corrodes an engine and kills the life of the engine for a conventional use like in a normal vehicle. A car without prolong might get 200,000 miles and a car with might get 150,000 miles. On the positive side Prolong creates a very strong film that again will help lubricate once oil pressure is gone. A stunt bike's engine will not last long enough to let the corrosion of Prolong set in but the film created by Prolong is perfect.
The guy from Red Line said the only other company he knows of that still uses ester in their oil is Mobil 1.
The dude from Mobil 1 agreed with everything above about the ester including that they are one of the last to use ester in their oil. He said just about all the same things except that he feels that the molybdenum is much better and is the way to go for an engine with no oil pressure. He said that molybdenum is the best for "scuff" protection.(our engines are not wearing out they are seizing up and/or the rod bearings are 'welding' to the crank which is what he means by "scuff" He did not talk about prolong at all.
Both guys said that we should be using 20w-50 weight oils because it is more "sticky" unless our manuals have a warning not to. They said that the only negative thing it will do is to loose a few horsepower.
Both guys said that if we are using a regular synthetic oil without molybdenum or ester, our engines are getting no lubrication while they are running with no oil pressure. They both feel that as long as we are not bouncing off rev limiter or we are not at vertical(12) for too long they think that with these oils our motor life should be extended dramatically.
The Red Line guy suggested to use any of their 20w-50 racing oils, they all have ether I guess. Maybe with Prolong.
The Mobil 1 guy suggested to use the Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50. He did not suggest this because I run a V-Twin, He suggested it because this oil is for designed for very high temperatures because it is often used on air cooled V-Twins with higher operating temperatures and it has molybdenum.
WOW that was long, I hope it works I am going to try to find out a little more, but as for now I think am a believer in what they say.
www.d-aces.com
So after a few phone calls I realized it does not pay to talk to anyone within any of the oil companies unless it is one of the lab technicians, they are the only ones that truly know anything and they are hard to get in contact with. I have talked to several companies, but I have only talked with the technicians at Mobil 1 and Red Line Synthetic Oil so far. I have to say that both tech's at each place know their ****, but each one had a differences in opinion.
As for the statement from MikeM, I never once thought about the clutch but the tech's did not either. Not sure if it really matters or not, I would think that they would have said something. Mobil 1 has a molybdenum oil made for bikes, I will call tomorrow and see what I can find out on this.
The guy from Red Line stated this: Molybdenum is not the best answer for an engine starving of oil. Molybdenum is not the best for lubrication of sliding surfaces, like piston walls and rod bearings but more for roller bearings like the crankshaft bearings and trany gears. (He explained why, but honestly it was confusing, not sure if I understand or believe him 100%). The most important ingredient is to have ester(spelling?). Ester is also a lubrication that is attracted to metal and will stay in the places you need it when the engine is getting no oil. Very few companies use ester anymore because it is much to expensive and not needed because of the synthetic oils that are made today. They are just as good without it for all applications except for an engine starving of oil. A regular synthetic oil will offer very little lubrication once the oil pressure is gone(12Oclock's), an oil with higher concentration of ester will.
He said he knows a lot of people will laugh at this, but he said use Prolong with an ester oil. He stated: On the negative side Prolong actually corrodes an engine and kills the life of the engine for a conventional use like in a normal vehicle. A car without prolong might get 200,000 miles and a car with might get 150,000 miles. On the positive side Prolong creates a very strong film that again will help lubricate once oil pressure is gone. A stunt bike's engine will not last long enough to let the corrosion of Prolong set in but the film created by Prolong is perfect.
The guy from Red Line said the only other company he knows of that still uses ester in their oil is Mobil 1.
The dude from Mobil 1 agreed with everything above about the ester including that they are one of the last to use ester in their oil. He said just about all the same things except that he feels that the molybdenum is much better and is the way to go for an engine with no oil pressure. He said that molybdenum is the best for "scuff" protection.(our engines are not wearing out they are seizing up and/or the rod bearings are 'welding' to the crank which is what he means by "scuff" He did not talk about prolong at all.
Both guys said that we should be using 20w-50 weight oils because it is more "sticky" unless our manuals have a warning not to. They said that the only negative thing it will do is to loose a few horsepower.
Both guys said that if we are using a regular synthetic oil without molybdenum or ester, our engines are getting no lubrication while they are running with no oil pressure. They both feel that as long as we are not bouncing off rev limiter or we are not at vertical(12) for too long they think that with these oils our motor life should be extended dramatically.
The Red Line guy suggested to use any of their 20w-50 racing oils, they all have ether I guess. Maybe with Prolong.
The Mobil 1 guy suggested to use the Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50. He did not suggest this because I run a V-Twin, He suggested it because this oil is for designed for very high temperatures because it is often used on air cooled V-Twins with higher operating temperatures and it has molybdenum.
WOW that was long, I hope it works I am going to try to find out a little more, but as for now I think am a believer in what they say.
www.d-aces.com
07-24-2003, 06:18 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: France
Age: 41
Posts: 7
very very interesting...............
but why dont you arrange your engine fot avoiding the problem with 12 o clock? its easy!!!!! just put a plate in the heuuuuu "carter in french lol".............in the place there is the oil lol!!!!! with that the oil donc go at the back and your oil pomp works on 12 o clock!!!
if there is some people who understanf french:
il faut mettre une plaque de métal dans le carter moteur pour que l'huile n'aille plus au fond et que la pompe a huile fonctionne meme a la verticale..........
but the oil may overheat............
but why dont you arrange your engine fot avoiding the problem with 12 o clock? its easy!!!!! just put a plate in the heuuuuu "carter in french lol".............in the place there is the oil lol!!!!! with that the oil donc go at the back and your oil pomp works on 12 o clock!!!
if there is some people who understanf french:
il faut mettre une plaque de métal dans le carter moteur pour que l'huile n'aille plus au fond et que la pompe a huile fonctionne meme a la verticale..........
but the oil may overheat............
07-25-2003, 12:59 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: area 612
Age: 43
Posts: 1,681
Originally posted by d-acesDan
well, I sure need something!!! I can't seem to keep a motor longer than a month! It gets very expensive. Ill try whatever!!
well, I sure need something!!! I can't seem to keep a motor longer than a month! It gets very expensive. Ill try whatever!!
you should take all those bad engines in for scrap metal, you'd probably have enough weight to cash in and buy a new one
07-30-2003, 06:12 PM
#11
D-Aces Stunt Pimp
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin
Age: 47
Posts: 406
I know I did a bit much typing, I felt a little dumb about it at the time. I wanted to give the facts about what they told me. I hoped with the details others might be convinced and get extra life from their motors.
Here is my condensed version for the slower readers:
Use Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50 oil or Red Line 20w-50 racing oil because it will help your engine last longer. Try some Prolong too.
Here is my condensed version for the slower readers:
Use Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50 oil or Red Line 20w-50 racing oil because it will help your engine last longer. Try some Prolong too.
08-03-2003, 12:08 AM
#12
D-Urban
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eau Claire/Chippewa Falls, WI
Age: 50
Posts: 411
"Wet clutches can slip with improper oil being used. Some people have had problems with them by using plain automotive oils in their motorcycles instead of the more expensive motorcycle oils. Some wet clutches will slip using synthetic oils."
"Next, in an effort to gain back some of the extreme wear protection, some oil producers have started adding other additives such as Molybdenum Disulfide, commonly referred to as just plain Moly. (Frankly, I had to look up the spelling myself for this article!) The stuff is really great for some applications such as an initial surface for new piston rings and for making motor oil more slippery. It may have some consequences for motorcycle wet clutches, especially in higher powered bikes. "
"Has anyone tried molybdenum disulfide addittives? (moly slip Mr. Moly
etc.) I put it in a wet clutch motorcycle once and it was so slippery the
clutch wouldn't take full torque!"
I found alot of websites talking about wet clutches slipping with different oil lubracants, including Moly (molybdenum disulfide). Just a thought!! I also found the Mobil 1 seems to be the best oil. It seems like every website I looked at talked highly of it. Im going to try that Mobil 1 V-Twin that Cory said to get.
"Next, in an effort to gain back some of the extreme wear protection, some oil producers have started adding other additives such as Molybdenum Disulfide, commonly referred to as just plain Moly. (Frankly, I had to look up the spelling myself for this article!) The stuff is really great for some applications such as an initial surface for new piston rings and for making motor oil more slippery. It may have some consequences for motorcycle wet clutches, especially in higher powered bikes. "
"Has anyone tried molybdenum disulfide addittives? (moly slip Mr. Moly
etc.) I put it in a wet clutch motorcycle once and it was so slippery the
clutch wouldn't take full torque!"
I found alot of websites talking about wet clutches slipping with different oil lubracants, including Moly (molybdenum disulfide). Just a thought!! I also found the Mobil 1 seems to be the best oil. It seems like every website I looked at talked highly of it. Im going to try that Mobil 1 V-Twin that Cory said to get.
..... 
08-08-2003, 10:10 PM
#14
www.Redline-Xtreme.com
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 46
Posts: 3,195
Originally posted by d-acesDan
Im going to try that Mobil 1 V-Twin that Cory said to get.
Im going to try that Mobil 1 V-Twin that Cory said to get.
. I may have to dig into the wallet next time and give it a try though.* Is there any way one of the moderators of this boad can "Copy" this thread to the "Stunt Discussion" board. I think alot of riders would find this advice very usefull
.
08-13-2003, 11:50 PM
#15
Regular StuntLifer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: c-HARD ON, Ohio
Age: 48
Posts: 755
Originally posted by dAcesCory
Use Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50 oil or Red Line 20w-50 racing oil because it will help your engine last longer. Try some Prolong too.
Use Mobil 1 V-twin 20w-50 oil or Red Line 20w-50 racing oil because it will help your engine last longer. Try some Prolong too.
08-21-2003, 08:58 AM
#18
I Have Too Much Free Time
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bangor, ME
Age: 45
Posts: 16,003
Originally posted by ENASNI900RR
I used mobil 1 with my 900rr. the problem with it is it made my clutch slip at high rpm's. I use honda hp4 now and no problems.
I used mobil 1 with my 900rr. the problem with it is it made my clutch slip at high rpm's. I use honda hp4 now and no problems.
08-24-2003, 11:06 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: WI
Age: 42
Posts: 59
oil
Cory and Dan, check out the new issue of sport rider. there is a big article on oils. Oils with moly, firction tests, heat breakdown, antiacids, all kinds of info. check it out. It shows honda's hp4 oil acutally contains moly in it, but not many other do.
