PavementPounder

I'm beginning to consider selling my Blackbird a bit more seriously now. Some people say it will be a new XX, some say a V5 VFR1200, some say a 1300. I'm still going to wait until whatever it is comes out, though.


http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?pa...NEWS_NEW-BIKES




VFR1200 revealed
Honda is to launch a 1200cc V5-engined replacement for the Blackbird. It will be packed full of anti-crash electronics and be capable of cracking 200mph.
Factory insiders say it will be on sale in 2006 and be blessed with the most powerful engine a road bike has ever used - making around 190bhp.
The bike - named the VFR1200 - will feature traction control and the latest development of Honda's combined braking alongside ABS.
Read the full story and see more pictures in the August 18 issue of MCN.

scratchnsniff

oh it looks quite evil... very interesting

PavementPounder

I've seen that picture on a lot of foreign sites photochopped with whatever lettering they want on it. The picture itself has blury spots and even looks like it has a dent in the tank. Even if its just a concept rendering, it still seems to have a lot of detail. I thought I saw a full shot somewhere, but I can't seem to find the old link I had. With the XX's hp to cc ratio at what it was, I always wondered why they didn't just bump up the size a little more...

BigJeff

Looks like a GIxxer front end to me. I know Honda couldn't have a stylish bike without stealing someones looks.

Jeff

PavementPounder

Hahahaha... That's like saying that the current Dodge Ram (DR) takes after the Ford Super-Duty trucks.

Think about how long the Blackbird has been in production and when the Busa was released. The Busa got the concept of its complex nose curve from the Blackbird, as well as the vertical headlight arrangement that allows for a narrow silhouette. Also allowing a reduction in width are mirror-mounted turn signals, part of the XX's design from the beginning. And just recently, YEARS LATER, Suzuki finally caught on and added them to the GSXR1k, along with the vertical headlamps. Among the Japs, who makes the most use of single-sided swingarm technology? How about under-tail exhaust? LBS and ABS? RC211V - 14 of 16 GP's in one year. Where are Yamaha and Suzuki's V5's? Who is really following who?

Yamaha and Suzuki have been so busy fighting each other 1 hp and 1 lb at a time by tearing up their top ends, I think they started to lose sight of innovation in their "brawl". Its just my opinion, but the rapid changes that all the other manufacturers have made to their platforms in the recent years leads me to believe that Honda looks farther ahead instead of just the next year or two.

BigJeff

1hp and 1lb is a big increase when it comes to power verus wieght ratio on a 360lb bike. Anyways the headlight design is the same as a Gixxer. To be honest with you the biggest styling change in the sportbike world happened when Yamaha release the first R1. From there everyone esle has been chasing them in styling. We could argue the who invented what that made sportbike what they are today but each manufactor has had there hand in changing the Sportbikes into what they are now.

Hasn't BMW been using ABS for a long time now? And single sided swing arms have been around for a hella long time.

My opnion is Honda's are just Fugly the best looking Honda of late is the Repsol bike.

PavementPounder

True, BMW has been a proponent of ABS for some time, but I was sticking to the Jpanese manufactures. BMW has its own following and does things its own way (Duo-lever suspension, emmissions controls, etc). I don't think they really give a crap what the Japs are doing because they know they have a strong market share and the ability to jump right into the frey whenever they please, as with the K1200S. Funny you should mention BMW, as they took major design and styling cues from Honda and the Blackbird, specifically. The complex curves in the nose, as well as the headlight placement and turn signals are nearly identical. Look at the two pictures below and keep in mind that the K1200S was also designed before the current GSXR1k cosmetic revisions. Sweet flat paint job on this thing, BTW...





You are correct that single-sided swingarms have been around for a long time. My point was who is taking advantage of making practical use of them, because its not Suzuki, Kawisaki, or Yamaha. In the mainstream, its Ducati, BMW, and Honda.

I think you are correct that everyone has had an influence, but I think you are misguided as to who has been pioneering what. Let's also not confuse styling with technological innovation. In an engineer's mind, form follows function. In other words, make it work - then make it look appealing. I think this is a flaw in your thinking that is shown by your comment about the Respol bike. The future does not lie in paint (unless it scrambles radar detectors). I certainly didn't buy my Blackbird for its looks. You can be damn sure I didn't buy my Lightning for its looks, either (or its technology for that matter ).

I would certainly agree with statements to the effect of Yamaha having a lot of influence over tail styling, weight reduction, and powerplant refinement, but this "stubborn" attitude towards laterally-mounted headlights just isn't the way to go in order to cut down the sillouhette. Had they moved to the vertical design a few iterations back, I think they would have been reaping serious areo benefits by now, considering time allowed for refinement. Same with Kawi's. Everyone has figured out its the way to go - even Ducati has gone that route. I still don't understand how you think it looks like a GSXR. It must be the skinny mirror stalks or the narrow lens of the lower-mounted beam. Both of which are reasonable refinements in the process of reducing the silouhette volume. Here's another picture of a K1200S from more of a right angle. Here you can see that the same shape of the nose that resembles the Blackbird so much in the above K1200S picture actually looks very much like the nose contour of the concept bike pictured above when viewed from a right angle. I think the concept "photo" may be fooling you because of the angle it was presented at - its not a good representation of the surface countour.





Many manufacturers don't seem to be diversifying and pushing ahead with their alternative powerplant research. Honda proved they can "go there" with a twin in the RC51, the inline 4 proved to be such a good design that they took it from 900 to 1000 in refined increments instead of scrapping a platform, they have been building V4's almost as long as there have actually been sportbikes, the bike that held the top speed title until the Busa was released was only 1139cc's in a 500lb package, and now the V5 may become a mass-produced reality. Are power-operated windshields all we should expect from the others?

PavementPounder

I obviously meant radar guns , not radar detectors.

Duke Nukem

Yep.........The 98 R1 started it all with the liter bikes. Once again my opinion on bikes.

Suzuki - Speed
Honda - Quality
Kawasaki -
Ducati - Brakes, Suspension and Cost
Yamaha - All of the above

PavementPounder

You guys are insane. You're more than a decade off.

BigJeff

Were crazy did you see that post of yours that is like 4 pages long.

All because I think the bike headlight looks like a GIXXER which it does.

BigJeff

I bet honda invented those stubby exhuast mufflers too.

PavementPounder

No, they didn't. Had you done some homework, you would have seen that Honda didn't even bother with them and is going straight to under-tail on its new products - eliminating the issue entirely.

Why spend money modifying a part (the can) that people don't like because its too long? Easy - because you either don't have the engineering resources, knowledge, foresight, or the money to eliminate it completely.


Now that you posted a frontal shot, you can see that the concept bike's headlight array is much wider at the top and has a higher surface volume. Those cute little silver stripes on the GSXR that form the "triangular shape" of the lens are not part of the headlight.

PavementPounder

Check it out...




Kawisaki stole the shape of their air intake from a GSXR headlight!!!!

Duke Nukem

And stole the "school bus" shape from the Honda 1000RR.

PavementPounder

As long as we are poking fun at shapes (and continuing to annoy Jeff), thought I'd throw up something I found.

"Throw up" being the key words...

Duke Nukem

If it was orange, I would swear that's the new Honda 1000RR.

PavementPounder

Wow. Great comeback. The nose of the Repsol isn't even orange and there isn't even any orange in the 06 lineup. Perhaps you meant Kawi. I'd hate to see two Yamaha owners contradict themselves in the same thread....

BigJeff

FYI: Bikes are just now going to Stubby exhuast cans. And just so we are straight on this the Ducati has had undertail exhuast a long time so Honda is not so retro or did Ducati steal that from Honda too. Seems some Honda owners just refuse to accept that fact their bikes are not the first for everything.

Do your research you Honda Owner. Or is this orange tribal flamed 2006 honda not included in their line up for 2006?

http://powersports.honda.com/motorcy...elId=CBR600RR6

Jeff

PavementPounder

I'm well aware of how long Ducati has been doing undertail - I rode with a 916 in college. I think you seriousy aren't paying attention to the words I am writing, because the only thing I said Honda actually "invented" was the stacked headlight, which is fact. There are other things they did first but didn't invent. All the other innovations I have pointed out were items that Honda is putting to practical use before the other Japanese manufacturers - not the rest of the world.

Why bother redesigning a can so it doesn't scrape when you can eliminate it from the side of the bike completely? Seems to me that eliminating the side-mounted can would also reduce damage if the bike tipped over. It would land on its hard points instead of bending, pinching off, or cracking the exhaust - not to mention greatly reducing the possibility of leg burns. What practical advantages do stubby cans give you? Not scraping at 12:00?

BTW, I did do my research and upon looking back I realize how I worded my reply. Dan specifically referred to the CBR1000RR and that was exactly what I replied toward - evidenced by my reference to the Repsol. I went looking on the same site you linked to for evidence of an orange 1000 in the 05 and 06 lineup, which there is none.


BTW, I'm not trying to be a **** with all this. I just thoroughly enjoy debating.