Serious letter regarding our sport's future....
07-30-2003, 10:50 AM
#23
I Enjoy Posting At StuntLife!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando
Age: 45
Posts: 1,446
Hopefully enough riders will realize that to be profesional you need more than riding skills. You also need to look profesional and act like a profesional.
Right now were all a bunch of street ballers. Street ballers = amateurs. If we want to get paid, we have to be in the NBA. The NBA = profesionals.
Right now were all a bunch of street ballers. Street ballers = amateurs. If we want to get paid, we have to be in the NBA. The NBA = profesionals.
07-30-2003, 12:03 PM
#25
AGGRESSION!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: the ALB
Age: 45
Posts: 5,760
I totally agree with you SHUGGA. I recently opened my eyes from this whole stunting thing. I would practice everyday trying every new trick I could think of. For what? I never competed until recently. I finally opened my eyes and realized that its more than just love for the sport. Its a way of life. I eat,sleep, and breath motorcycles. I have only competed twice but its a start. We drove 12 hours to California twice to compete in WBBF. I am planning on hitting more shows now.
As far as just slow tricks I totally agree with you. While I was at WBBF this topic came up. Adam Chumita was talking and we were all saying that a good combo can get just as much points and attention from the judges and the crowd as a slow wheelie or no handed wheelie etc... The wierd thing about this is that there were a lot of riders that were only doing slow stuff over and over again. Creativity is what wins competitions. Riders need to focus and be as well rounded as possible. Say you get 2 runs. I think the ideal runs would be a slow wheelie, cirlce, no handed for 1 run and and a good combo for the other to show that you have more skills than just the slow stuff that everyone and their mother is doing. The game is getting more and more complicated and I think the thing that will seperate the pros from amateurs is CREATIVITY. While the amateurs are doing everything that the pros are trying the PROS are thinking of new tricks to step up the game............
Just my .02 cents
As far as just slow tricks I totally agree with you. While I was at WBBF this topic came up. Adam Chumita was talking and we were all saying that a good combo can get just as much points and attention from the judges and the crowd as a slow wheelie or no handed wheelie etc... The wierd thing about this is that there were a lot of riders that were only doing slow stuff over and over again. Creativity is what wins competitions. Riders need to focus and be as well rounded as possible. Say you get 2 runs. I think the ideal runs would be a slow wheelie, cirlce, no handed for 1 run and and a good combo for the other to show that you have more skills than just the slow stuff that everyone and their mother is doing. The game is getting more and more complicated and I think the thing that will seperate the pros from amateurs is CREATIVITY. While the amateurs are doing everything that the pros are trying the PROS are thinking of new tricks to step up the game............
Just my .02 cents
07-30-2003, 04:14 PM
#26
I Enjoy Posting At StuntLife!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: nor cal
Age: 44
Posts: 2,241
first things first i have never competed,not because i dont want to, i guess i just didnt think i had what it was gonna take to place.now i see placing doesnt matter in a sense. now because of the recent changes(it seems)of letters or the article in superbike magazine being written it really opens my eyes on what im going to have to do to better myself as a single rider in the stunt community, and its not learn new tricks. its gonna have to be me getting out there and competing pretty much as much as i can.(the only thing that sucks now is i tore my acl and have another 5and a half months before i can stunt again. but ohh well thanks for opening my eyes anyway shugga. 
lata,and thanks again
mike
lata,and thanks again
mike
07-30-2003, 04:25 PM
#27
Has-Been... Was I ever?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 46
Posts: 3,343
I think the bigger question we need think about is...
Show or Competition?
Which one will entertains the crowd? Entertainment will create a market. Market will create $$.
Well, here is my take on it the two.....
Competitions
- Comps help grow / mature the sport. It increases talent and creates tricks. But the technicalities it creates causes riders to bore crowds at shows.... especially people who don't understand it. I mean, a wheelie is a wheelie to these people.
Shows
- Shows need to involve more "Danger". We need to increase the "WOW" Factor. We need to entertain these people on pure organized chaos. If we decide to choose this direction, then we need to use Danger to keep people entertained.
Another thing to think about...
People use anticipation to stay entertained. People watch Nascar, Baseball, Motocross, etc. to find out who the winner will be. They want to cheer for THEIR guy. They want THEIR guy to win. They watch THEIR team and hope to win it all in the end. They want victory!! Yeah!! We Won woohoo!! We're involved!! Yea!! Closing the deal!!
Think of it like sex... you date a girl, you take her to dinner, you spend money on her, you bring her home, you bang, all for what? THE ENDING!! It's all about A-N-T-I-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N & Closing the deal. It's the self created anticipation that keeps people entertained, involved, and coming back for more. If we don't create some sort of anticipation then we need to create "WOW". With WOW, We need to eliminate the smoothness, the respectfulness, the finesse, and the technical crap that no one but us stuntriders understand. Think about it.... it takes about 30 minutes of wheelies and stoppies before people get bored. People love the occasional burnouts... but do you wanna know why.... Because.... NO ONE HAS DONE ONE FOR 2 HOURS!! They've been waiting for 2 hours for a change. They're just plain bored. And they're waiting for nothing in the end.
So although I think organization is important, I think we need to choice a DIRECTION.
Lata,
Bri
Show or Competition?
Which one will entertains the crowd? Entertainment will create a market. Market will create $$.
Well, here is my take on it the two.....
Competitions
- Comps help grow / mature the sport. It increases talent and creates tricks. But the technicalities it creates causes riders to bore crowds at shows.... especially people who don't understand it. I mean, a wheelie is a wheelie to these people.
Shows
- Shows need to involve more "Danger". We need to increase the "WOW" Factor. We need to entertain these people on pure organized chaos. If we decide to choose this direction, then we need to use Danger to keep people entertained.
Another thing to think about...
People use anticipation to stay entertained. People watch Nascar, Baseball, Motocross, etc. to find out who the winner will be. They want to cheer for THEIR guy. They want THEIR guy to win. They watch THEIR team and hope to win it all in the end. They want victory!! Yeah!! We Won woohoo!! We're involved!! Yea!! Closing the deal!!
Think of it like sex... you date a girl, you take her to dinner, you spend money on her, you bring her home, you bang, all for what? THE ENDING!! It's all about A-N-T-I-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N & Closing the deal. It's the self created anticipation that keeps people entertained, involved, and coming back for more. If we don't create some sort of anticipation then we need to create "WOW". With WOW, We need to eliminate the smoothness, the respectfulness, the finesse, and the technical crap that no one but us stuntriders understand. Think about it.... it takes about 30 minutes of wheelies and stoppies before people get bored. People love the occasional burnouts... but do you wanna know why.... Because.... NO ONE HAS DONE ONE FOR 2 HOURS!! They've been waiting for 2 hours for a change. They're just plain bored. And they're waiting for nothing in the end.
So although I think organization is important, I think we need to choice a DIRECTION.
Lata,
Bri
07-30-2003, 05:04 PM
#29
that guy
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: wisconsin
Age: 45
Posts: 1,601
the fans are #1 in the book. i always take the time and act profesional no matter if i am hosting a comp or doing a show ( local ) i played host to a lot of people on the stuntlife comp. i think thats why a lot of the teams said the would be back. i talk to dealers and just local people on the stuntlife comp we had kids and dads with harleys and they loved it. when we do shows at the drag strip we get tons of kids and even older people saying wow thats what we need to make it grow be nice and profesional to all. you get some guys saying you suck blah... but push them off. the fans that what to talk is where you will make the money then they go to your website and see all the other teams and starts speading the money out more and they tell friends.
07-30-2003, 06:49 PM
#30
Regular StuntLifer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 261
Very well writen letter! I may be new here on this board but i have been around the bike scene for many years and I have seen this crossroads coming for a while. Freestyle can not progress much farther without becoming more porfessional and losing the outlaw image. Unfortunately I think that will be a very tough change since a lot of riders like the outlaw image.
I have noticed lately that even the cops respect you when you act professionally. They still have to shut down your riding but when you are nice to the officer, are wearing your gear, and are practicing in an out of the way area they wont hassle you too much.
What has to stop is the stunts in rush hour traffic type actions, plus gear usage will improve the image in everybodies eyes. That is one thing I have noticed is the big icrease in gear usage. Thank You to everybody who does
I have noticed lately that even the cops respect you when you act professionally. They still have to shut down your riding but when you are nice to the officer, are wearing your gear, and are practicing in an out of the way area they wont hassle you too much.
What has to stop is the stunts in rush hour traffic type actions, plus gear usage will improve the image in everybodies eyes. That is one thing I have noticed is the big icrease in gear usage. Thank You to everybody who does
07-31-2003, 01:33 AM
#35
Regular StuntLifer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Age: 48
Posts: 187
i agree 100%...but not as a rider....we (WestCoast Filmworks / insanevideos.com) have spent alot of time and resources building our 'Project Mayhem: LIVE' show for the NHRA, and have brought in many different crews to be a part of it. We are highly selective of who we choose to offer a spot to on the tour, as it would only take one or two bad incidents for them to pull the plug on what we have going. We really give a big thanks to the groups that have taken a chance with our shows and jumped in, and been supportive.
all i can say to any groups out there that wanna take their live performances to the next level (30K plus crowds) is to look at the entire opportunity being presented to you. maybe the promoter is offering you a decent chunk of $$$ to show up and perform....but not mentioning your crews name or website address during your performance....maybe the promoter makes up a handout style flyer, but doesnt put your crews name on it, or mention that you have a vid for sale...........vs. a promoter that pays you less up front $$$, but plugs your website, crew name, and puts you on their handout flier. what do you find more beneficial? are you looking for the quick buck, or to try to build your name and brand to attract future sponsors and keep current sponsors happy?
we have met and worked with crews that fall into both catagories, and i can tell you that one of those types we enjoy working with, and the other we won't call back again. we work very hard on a daily basis to make this sport/entertainment work, and get new fresh eyes on the talent that we know is out there.....take a good look at the big picture before you judge who is trying to take advantage of you, and who is trying to help you.
my .03 cents
-tyson
WestCoast Filmworks
insanevideos.com
all i can say to any groups out there that wanna take their live performances to the next level (30K plus crowds) is to look at the entire opportunity being presented to you. maybe the promoter is offering you a decent chunk of $$$ to show up and perform....but not mentioning your crews name or website address during your performance....maybe the promoter makes up a handout style flyer, but doesnt put your crews name on it, or mention that you have a vid for sale...........vs. a promoter that pays you less up front $$$, but plugs your website, crew name, and puts you on their handout flier. what do you find more beneficial? are you looking for the quick buck, or to try to build your name and brand to attract future sponsors and keep current sponsors happy?
we have met and worked with crews that fall into both catagories, and i can tell you that one of those types we enjoy working with, and the other we won't call back again. we work very hard on a daily basis to make this sport/entertainment work, and get new fresh eyes on the talent that we know is out there.....take a good look at the big picture before you judge who is trying to take advantage of you, and who is trying to help you.
my .03 cents
-tyson
WestCoast Filmworks
insanevideos.com
07-31-2003, 02:05 AM
#36
Regular StuntLifer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Age: 44
Posts: 246
"Nice guys finish last"
if you want something get it.... i think one major factor in this sport getting big is the "professional" image of the sport..... i really do hate mainstream shieat but thats me...... if this sport goes mainstream ill be right there with it cuz i love this sport..... everyone gotta think in terms of "how far will stunting really go" theres no limit on what you can or cant do on a bike if you have an imagination....... just keep it real..... just like in other sports.....theirs the good guys and theres the bad guys....... same with stunting.... you got hotel trashers and you got the norms.....i seriously doubt that people will change their style just because they want this sport to evolve.... i think the sport is going to evolve with ALL of us pushing it forward and when it gets big i dont even wanna know what its gonna be like
all we have to do is support and push this shieat forward and be pro about it.....pro as in having respect for ALL stunnaz...respect officals...security...all that **** that has to do with competion and shows....... me personally ive never competed cuz i just started this summer....but next year i want to compete.... theres nothing holding this sport back except ALL OF US.... if you want it that bad you gotta put everything you have into it and GET IT!!!
if you want something get it.... i think one major factor in this sport getting big is the "professional" image of the sport..... i really do hate mainstream shieat but thats me...... if this sport goes mainstream ill be right there with it cuz i love this sport..... everyone gotta think in terms of "how far will stunting really go" theres no limit on what you can or cant do on a bike if you have an imagination....... just keep it real..... just like in other sports.....theirs the good guys and theres the bad guys....... same with stunting.... you got hotel trashers and you got the norms.....i seriously doubt that people will change their style just because they want this sport to evolve.... i think the sport is going to evolve with ALL of us pushing it forward and when it gets big i dont even wanna know what its gonna be like
all we have to do is support and push this shieat forward and be pro about it.....pro as in having respect for ALL stunnaz...respect officals...security...all that **** that has to do with competion and shows....... me personally ive never competed cuz i just started this summer....but next year i want to compete.... theres nothing holding this sport back except ALL OF US.... if you want it that bad you gotta put everything you have into it and GET IT!!!
07-31-2003, 04:04 AM
#37
Creater/Founder
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: OKC, OK
Age: 48
Posts: 8,508
Re: ...
Originally posted by DV8Ronnie
those arent his words... he was just postin some thoughts on someone elses behalf!!!!
those arent his words... he was just postin some thoughts on someone elses behalf!!!!
Keep your eyes open. There are doors opening and many new opportunities that will arise in the coming months/year. We can sit back and watch it all happen or take a proactive approch and participate. I know I have not been able to participate NEARLY as much as I would have liked to in the past year. Yet I try and close the store to attend and support as many events as humanly possible. I know that MANY of you all have done the same. Lets keep that up and work even harder for the future.
I just want to applaud all of you for your hard work in bringing the sport to where it currently is, and lets all work extra hard this coming year in participating and actively trying to include ourselves in future endevors that contribute to a positive future for us all.
07-31-2003, 07:54 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: C-ville
Posts: 177
Originally posted by CBOdmi
If the sport turns pro then it turns pro. People arent going to like me for saying this but I dont really care. I kind of like how its underground, being able to hang out with guys like Thew and Gorka is cool man.
If the sport turns pro then it turns pro. People arent going to like me for saying this but I dont really care. I kind of like how its underground, being able to hang out with guys like Thew and Gorka is cool man.
How bout hangin out with them in your million dollar home?
Originally posted by CBOdmi
If it gets to pro u people might not be able to interact with the pros like u can now.
If it gets to pro u people might not be able to interact with the pros like u can now.
Originally posted by CBOdmi
Stunt riding is similar to being a DJ its underground and cool thats the way I like it. Don't get me wrong I try to be as professional as i can to help the sport but at the same time I just go with the flow. If guys wanna trash hotels go for it, If a real sponsor is interested in you, their not going to hold you responsible for some **** that happend that u didnt do. Yeah it looks bad for the sport but we are bad, this is not badmitton. I got into stunt riding cause Im a thug straight up. Like Kyle Woods says Nice guys finish last
Stunt riding is similar to being a DJ its underground and cool thats the way I like it. Don't get me wrong I try to be as professional as i can to help the sport but at the same time I just go with the flow. If guys wanna trash hotels go for it, If a real sponsor is interested in you, their not going to hold you responsible for some **** that happend that u didnt do. Yeah it looks bad for the sport but we are bad, this is not badmitton. I got into stunt riding cause Im a thug straight up. Like Kyle Woods says Nice guys finish last
I know, I was a "thug" (although it was called a punk when i was doing it back in the day). Nobody could tell me the "right" path was going to improve my life well enough for me to hear it. i thought they were full of shiet. What else was there than my bike, my girl, my friends, my beer, and whatever else
Struggling for food, rent, transportation, beer money sucks.
If you have a opportunity to do what you love for $$$$, do it or start saving for the Prozac now.
i have a good job and great life now, but if I were to follow my closed mind as a punk, id be dead, poor, homeless, in jail ect...
You guys have a chance to make it happen, like skateboarders, freestyle m-xers, dont pass it up
07-31-2003, 10:22 AM
#40
Gas'er!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: from the East to the West
Age: 46
Posts: 6,272
i'll be looking for Toto and the magical red slipper in about ten days. then i will put that slipper on my tiny feet, click my heels three times and be back home in about a 30 hour drive....
mr. mcneil
mr. mcneil
