Serious question for serious stunters
06-26-2003, 11:50 AM
#1
Stunlife's #1 Gimp!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aurora, Illinois
Posts: 1,902
Serious question for serious stunters
Ok, I've been pondering this a long time. Everyone knows that there is a natural progression to stunting. Like you start doing stoppies, move up to rolling endos, and eventually to crossed up endos, etc.
Same goes for the wheelie. The natural progression seems to be: sit down power wheelies, power up stand ups, clutch up stand ups, slow sit downs, slow stand ups, then all the technical stuff like cirles, nth, etc.
The question is this. Do you think it is possible (or wise) to start out with the slow wheelies. Without gaining the experiance of throttle control which is more forgiving at lower altitudes (faster). Tall, slow wheelies seem alot safer but is it possible for someone to just go out and learn 12's and say ***** it to the high speed crap? I've talked to alot of the top stunters in this area (Chicago) and there seems to be alot of mixed emotions about it. Everyone here went through the natural progression so they really have problems answering it. Slow wheelies are safer, but do you need that progression to learn?
Same goes for the wheelie. The natural progression seems to be: sit down power wheelies, power up stand ups, clutch up stand ups, slow sit downs, slow stand ups, then all the technical stuff like cirles, nth, etc.
The question is this. Do you think it is possible (or wise) to start out with the slow wheelies. Without gaining the experiance of throttle control which is more forgiving at lower altitudes (faster). Tall, slow wheelies seem alot safer but is it possible for someone to just go out and learn 12's and say ***** it to the high speed crap? I've talked to alot of the top stunters in this area (Chicago) and there seems to be alot of mixed emotions about it. Everyone here went through the natural progression so they really have problems answering it. Slow wheelies are safer, but do you need that progression to learn?
06-26-2003, 11:54 AM
#2
On Probation - Rebel member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: so cali
Age: 42
Posts: 1,018
i have cant stunt yet but i have been reading alot of threads on this forum. some people have said they can only do slow stuff so the progression probl would help but isnt neccessary. ill let u know for sure because thats how i plan to learn. i want to learn slow stuff first, we will see what happens i guess.
06-26-2003, 12:05 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: im lost
Age: 43
Posts: 942
the way i look at it is this. there are two forms of riding. you have your competition material and your show material.
i mean lets face it, crowds love the high speed fly by the seat of your pants type stuff. they like the high speed wheelies, acrobatics, blowing up tires, and things like that. they look at people doing slow wheelies all day long and arent impressed because they dont know how technical it is.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
in competitions, when you are surrounded by riders, the more technical tricks are appreciated more. And circle wheelies are a little more appreciated than a christ.
but you do need a variety of tricks either way. you could be great at circles and have no other tricks on lock, and the most you may win is a circle wheelie contest.
i think more people should focus on being a bad a$$ all around rider. i mean, when you can do 600 plus endos, circles, NH and NTH stuff, contorlled high speed flamingos, acrobatics, burnouts, and do it all consistently, THEN you have something to brag about!
so i guess it all depends on what the person trying to learn is planning on doing. if they only want to do competitions, then maybe the high speed stuff isnt as important, but if they plan on doing an shows, and want to really impress a crowd, i would say learn both things, i guess the order doesnt really matter.
i mean lets face it, crowds love the high speed fly by the seat of your pants type stuff. they like the high speed wheelies, acrobatics, blowing up tires, and things like that. they look at people doing slow wheelies all day long and arent impressed because they dont know how technical it is.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
in competitions, when you are surrounded by riders, the more technical tricks are appreciated more. And circle wheelies are a little more appreciated than a christ.
but you do need a variety of tricks either way. you could be great at circles and have no other tricks on lock, and the most you may win is a circle wheelie contest.
i think more people should focus on being a bad a$$ all around rider. i mean, when you can do 600 plus endos, circles, NH and NTH stuff, contorlled high speed flamingos, acrobatics, burnouts, and do it all consistently, THEN you have something to brag about!
so i guess it all depends on what the person trying to learn is planning on doing. if they only want to do competitions, then maybe the high speed stuff isnt as important, but if they plan on doing an shows, and want to really impress a crowd, i would say learn both things, i guess the order doesnt really matter.
06-26-2003, 01:23 PM
#4
I Have Too Much Free Time
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Diddleboro , MA
Age: 45
Posts: 12,735
i went right from not being able to do a wheelie - and only wanted to learn 12's. Practaced all slow speed stuff and brake control so i was stable, then put it back & scraped tail. Now ive got complete control of the bike & can creep sit downs & stand ups.
I honestly suck at the high speed stuff, i learned *** backwards. I agree - crouds dont realize how F'n hard it is to creep wheelies. They love christs & burn outs & donuts.
Go figure, i can coast, drag tail, 12 sitting & standing but can't do a flamingo or tank wheelie to save my life. Guess I better concentrate on that stuff now to be well rounded.
oh yeah, can't stoppie for **** either!
dammit i suck.
I honestly suck at the high speed stuff, i learned *** backwards. I agree - crouds dont realize how F'n hard it is to creep wheelies. They love christs & burn outs & donuts.
Go figure, i can coast, drag tail, 12 sitting & standing but can't do a flamingo or tank wheelie to save my life. Guess I better concentrate on that stuff now to be well rounded.
oh yeah, can't stoppie for **** either!
dammit i suck.
06-26-2003, 01:24 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: .
Posts: 1,456
ok i feel i have a half decent answer 'cause this exact topic of progession ran though my head just 2 days ago.
im tryn to clutch 2nd, and im endn up at like 65 70mph. so i look over at my buddy on his stock geared 900rr and although he has alot more skill and experience than me he is clutching up 1st at like 10-15 mph. so i think "why the hell am i doin 65 and sucking, when i can do 15 and suck" so i did 15-30 for the rest of the night and sucked, and i felt progressed much more than i probably would have had i continued in 2nd. why? cause its alot easier to clutch up 1st than 2nd. and power wheelies come up way to fast and incosistent in 1st on a 929. and when i get done with a crappy wheelie i can go right into a half way decent endo.
well thats my
did i mention i suck??
im tryn to clutch 2nd, and im endn up at like 65 70mph. so i look over at my buddy on his stock geared 900rr and although he has alot more skill and experience than me he is clutching up 1st at like 10-15 mph. so i think "why the hell am i doin 65 and sucking, when i can do 15 and suck" so i did 15-30 for the rest of the night and sucked, and i felt progressed much more than i probably would have had i continued in 2nd. why? cause its alot easier to clutch up 1st than 2nd. and power wheelies come up way to fast and incosistent in 1st on a 929. and when i get done with a crappy wheelie i can go right into a half way decent endo.
well thats my
did i mention i suck??
06-26-2003, 05:49 PM
#8
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Merrimack NH
Age: 41
Posts: 2,053
im learning slow before fast, getting sum sprockets,
i always learned slow on everything quad, fiddy....so i figure ill do the same on a bike...i know its harder to do slow wheelies, but id rather go down at 10-15 rather than 80 ya know?? once u go the balance point slow and brake, i think fast would just come....well c how it works....bar is on, cage this week....
i always learned slow on everything quad, fiddy....so i figure ill do the same on a bike...i know its harder to do slow wheelies, but id rather go down at 10-15 rather than 80 ya know?? once u go the balance point slow and brake, i think fast would just come....well c how it works....bar is on, cage this week....
06-26-2003, 06:55 PM
#9
www.Redline-Xtreme.com
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Age: 46
Posts: 3,195
Originally posted by David P.O.B.
the way i look at it is this. there are two forms of riding. you have your competition material and your show material.
i mean lets face it, crowds love the high speed fly by the seat of your pants type stuff. they like the high speed wheelies, acrobatics, blowing up tires, and things like that. they look at people doing slow wheelies all day long and arent impressed because they dont know how technical it is.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
in competitions, when you are surrounded by riders, the more technical tricks are appreciated more. And circle wheelies are a little more appreciated than a christ.
but you do need a variety of tricks either way. you could be great at circles and have no other tricks on lock, and the most you may win is a circle wheelie contest.
i think more people should focus on being a bad a$$ all around rider. i mean, when you can do 600 plus endos, circles, NH and NTH stuff, contorlled high speed flamingos, acrobatics, burnouts, and do it all consistently, THEN you have something to brag about!
so i guess it all depends on what the person trying to learn is planning on doing. if they only want to do competitions, then maybe the high speed stuff isnt as important, but if they plan on doing an shows, and want to really impress a crowd, i would say learn both things, i guess the order doesnt really matter.
the way i look at it is this. there are two forms of riding. you have your competition material and your show material.
i mean lets face it, crowds love the high speed fly by the seat of your pants type stuff. they like the high speed wheelies, acrobatics, blowing up tires, and things like that. they look at people doing slow wheelies all day long and arent impressed because they dont know how technical it is.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
in competitions, when you are surrounded by riders, the more technical tricks are appreciated more. And circle wheelies are a little more appreciated than a christ.
but you do need a variety of tricks either way. you could be great at circles and have no other tricks on lock, and the most you may win is a circle wheelie contest.
i think more people should focus on being a bad a$$ all around rider. i mean, when you can do 600 plus endos, circles, NH and NTH stuff, contorlled high speed flamingos, acrobatics, burnouts, and do it all consistently, THEN you have something to brag about!
so i guess it all depends on what the person trying to learn is planning on doing. if they only want to do competitions, then maybe the high speed stuff isnt as important, but if they plan on doing an shows, and want to really impress a crowd, i would say learn both things, i guess the order doesnt really matter.
!I see it like this, whatever you focus on you can acheive. Personally I think if you have been in the game since the begining(3-5yrs) then it will be more difficult to pick up the slow stuff. Why, because they have been riding for 3-5+ yrs focusing on not flipping thier bike. Once you build up that Dicipline for so long it is hard to brake the habbit or overcome the fear of flipping over. Where as a Newbie may not have all the basics down, but they do have the most important adtantage over the more experienced riders....The lack of "The Fear of Looping". This is because they are skiping the first stage...."Disiplining themselves not to flip during a wheelie".
The key to 12's is overcoming the fear of looping and not panicing in the process. Now there is an entirely new disiplinary action to learn, cover the rear brake and taping it to keep you at the balance point. As I have stressed, the hardest part to learning 12's is overcoming the Fear Of Looping. Once you get past that stage a whole new bag of tricks becomes available.
06-27-2003, 09:19 AM
#10
I Have Too Much Free Time
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bangor, ME
Age: 45
Posts: 16,003
Originally posted by David P.O.B.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
ive seen crowds get more excited over a tired blowing up or a christ, than a no handed wheelie or any slow speed trick.
06-27-2003, 10:50 AM
#11
Stunlife's #1 Gimp!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Aurora, Illinois
Posts: 1,902
Whoa, thanks guys. I appreciate all the input. I've been riding for several years and used to be all about stunting but I haven't done a wheelie in 2 years since I balled up. Falling off your bike at 60+mph stings a little. Felt like I got hit by a train so I really don't want to do that again. Maybe falling off your bike at 10 -15 will feel more like getting hit with a bat. I guess the trick would be not falling off 
I have no desire to get to cometition level. I'm not really into showing off either, this is all for me. Ya know, something to do strictly for my amusement.
I have no desire to get to cometition level. I'm not really into showing off either, this is all for me. Ya know, something to do strictly for my amusement.
06-27-2003, 11:51 AM
#12
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: J.ville, N.Carolina
Age: 41
Posts: 2,965
gradual learning
I think if you start out fast doing basic wheelies and get better that way than just hopping on and doin nothing but 12 s, you become well rounded for all situations
06-30-2003, 02:42 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oceanside,CA
Age: 47
Posts: 191
You guys think that crowds like the faster wheelies? I agree with them enjoying the less technical tankstands and burnouts. But where are you guys putting on shows? It must be 1/4 mile tracks. Cause the shows I have done are all short parking lots/circle tracks and crap like that. There is just not that much room to bust out high speed stuff.
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