XDL thread........
04-19-2007, 01:17 AM
#105
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Re: XDL thread........
bullo you dont know what the **** u are talking about....
For all u know it alls...After talking to dan and the judge in question.. (and no it wasnt the variation judge like you say bullo)... then talking to all 10 riders.. I let dan on the qualifying list.. nobody seemed to have a problem with it at the event.. but hey they never do have anything to say until they get home on the PC
and just the fact that I even agreed to listen to a rider complaint and address it with the judge and all other riders should make you all feel good
For all u know it alls...After talking to dan and the judge in question.. (and no it wasnt the variation judge like you say bullo)... then talking to all 10 riders.. I let dan on the qualifying list.. nobody seemed to have a problem with it at the event.. but hey they never do have anything to say until they get home on the PC
and just the fact that I even agreed to listen to a rider complaint and address it with the judge and all other riders should make you all feel good
Dan argued the score... video was watched... judges discussed the arguement... Dan was given the benefit of the doubt and was added to the 10 Top Qualifiers to avoid knocking someone off the list. I THINK THAT WAS A WELL TAKEN CARE OF SITUATION. Has any other comp done it that professional???? NO!!!
SO STOP BITCHING!!!
04-19-2007, 01:30 AM
#106
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Re: XDL thread........
If all stunters spent as much time on thier bikes, as they do starting drama on SL, our sport would be X-Games for sure!!! 
04-19-2007, 02:04 AM
#108
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Re: XDL thread........
04-19-2007, 02:16 AM
#109
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04-19-2007, 03:36 AM
#110
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Re: XDL thread........
As extremely disappointed as we were, that as much as he was anticipated by most to make it, Jesse somehow did not qualify for the finals, we acknowledge that it is all in the math of the points system. So the question is, for the sake of knowing precisely what areas need to be addressed for his future runs, is it possible that we may acquire his score sheets and determine exactly where he is lacking by XDL standards? It would be an extremely helpful tool in helping him achieve a perfect execution of the ideal run by XDL parameters for future events. PM me if necessary.
That subject aside, let me go on to say the event was extremely well run, fun, exciting, and all in all very well done! I was amazed at the quickness with which improvements were made allong the way on a daily basis throughout the duration of the event, the layout was very effective, and I think both the riders and the organizers did very well with the location they were provided with!
Although I too was sorely disappointed with some of the results, (namely E-dub, & of course Jesse, not placing as highly as I had hoped, for example) I do not want that to be mistaken for objection. I'm just striving to personally gain a more greatly clarified understanding of the exact parameters of the judging criteria so that they may be better met in future events. Ultimately, these comps essentially serve to necessitate riders stepping up their game to a higher level, & knowing the potential ideal at present standards would be extremely beneficial.
I have thoroughly read the judging packet & all such available materials I have been able to come across, but there are still many questions as to interpretation and such, among other things. The time for us to address such inquiries would have of course been most appropriately BEFORE the event, but of course only hindsight is 20/20 and no lack of understanding on our part became apparent until after the fact. Don't get me wrong, there was no insufficiency on the explanation of the basic judging criteria & requirements (not a single hand was raised for a question at the rider meetings when asked), but rather it was a matter of questions of interpretation of them on the riders' part that came up as the event went along, where it was too little too late.
Again, NONE of this is to argue or contest the results of past events-- just to better understand & prepare for the future ones.
Sorry to all for the long winded post.. but if it was too much for you to read it probably was not intended for you!
That subject aside, let me go on to say the event was extremely well run, fun, exciting, and all in all very well done! I was amazed at the quickness with which improvements were made allong the way on a daily basis throughout the duration of the event, the layout was very effective, and I think both the riders and the organizers did very well with the location they were provided with!
Although I too was sorely disappointed with some of the results, (namely E-dub, & of course Jesse, not placing as highly as I had hoped, for example) I do not want that to be mistaken for objection. I'm just striving to personally gain a more greatly clarified understanding of the exact parameters of the judging criteria so that they may be better met in future events. Ultimately, these comps essentially serve to necessitate riders stepping up their game to a higher level, & knowing the potential ideal at present standards would be extremely beneficial.
I have thoroughly read the judging packet & all such available materials I have been able to come across, but there are still many questions as to interpretation and such, among other things. The time for us to address such inquiries would have of course been most appropriately BEFORE the event, but of course only hindsight is 20/20 and no lack of understanding on our part became apparent until after the fact. Don't get me wrong, there was no insufficiency on the explanation of the basic judging criteria & requirements (not a single hand was raised for a question at the rider meetings when asked), but rather it was a matter of questions of interpretation of them on the riders' part that came up as the event went along, where it was too little too late.
Again, NONE of this is to argue or contest the results of past events-- just to better understand & prepare for the future ones.
Sorry to all for the long winded post.. but if it was too much for you to read it probably was not intended for you!
04-19-2007, 08:04 AM
#111
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Age: 55
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Re: XDL thread........
I think a points breakdown sheet is a good idea for everyone to have access to. If they know where they are not scoring as high as they'd like, down to the elements of a trick, there are people who would apply the information to their practice sessions.
04-19-2007, 08:32 AM
#112
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Re: XDL thread........
Exactly.
People are of course going to bitch & complain at what they see, but honestly they were probably doing so anyways, so it shouldn't change anything-- the score was the score, deal with it. But knowing is far better than not knowing; at least they can then apply the constructive criticism rather than shooting in the dark, not knowing exactly where & how they are lacking.
I truly think such feedback would only serve to further the sport, through advancing rider efforts.
People are of course going to bitch & complain at what they see, but honestly they were probably doing so anyways, so it shouldn't change anything-- the score was the score, deal with it. But knowing is far better than not knowing; at least they can then apply the constructive criticism rather than shooting in the dark, not knowing exactly where & how they are lacking.
I truly think such feedback would only serve to further the sport, through advancing rider efforts.
04-19-2007, 01:41 PM
#113
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Re: XDL thread........
Valeska, you are right. Although I wish I can provide you with all the scores done by each judge, I'm almost gonna guarantee that those scores will be nowhere to be found. Thomas might have them. I stress might. The only scores XDL and Thomas were truly worried about keeping were the final scores.
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
04-19-2007, 01:43 PM
#114
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Location: SOUTH BAY, CA.
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Re: XDL thread........
Valeska, you are right. Although I wish I can provide you with all the scores done by each judge, I'm almost gonna guarantee that those scores will be nowhere to be found. Thomas might have them. I stress might. The only scores XDL and Thomas were truly worried about keeping were the final scores.
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
caught ya again
TRADER!!!!
04-19-2007, 08:11 PM
#115
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: BFE, MD
Age: 55
Posts: 3,994
Re: XDL thread........
Valeska, you are right. Although I wish I can provide you with all the scores done by each judge, I'm almost gonna guarantee that those scores will be nowhere to be found. Thomas might have them. I stress might. The only scores XDL and Thomas were truly worried about keeping were the final scores.
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
Riders who really wanted to improve their score came to the judges after their first qualifying run. That made them make immediate changes to their final run thus making their scores higher. Edub, Aaron, and Lin Savage are 3 riders to prove that it helped.
As much as I can remember, Jesse Toler did not hit his 20 variations. I could only remember 3 different times during the whole weekend that a rider hit 20. Hitting variations "cleanly" made a huge difference in their Difficulty, Execution, and Overall scoring. I know he also wasted time doing a couple tricks more than once and drifting too much. When putting a run together, there should be no reason to double up on tricks. There are over 100 different stunts that can be done. Do your best to utilize a variety of them and make them flow within 3 minutes.
Look at it like this, when you do a show, you want to keep the crowd excited. You can't just do circles. You don't want to have LONG pauses between tricks. You can't do the same tricks over and over again. Make your run exciting to the crowd and to the judges. Have good form. Make tricks look like they are suppose to link up naturally.
I hope that helps...
I wonder if the judges scoring sheets couldn't be tweaked to have a little pull out for rider notes. (ie "deducted for extension" etc) or would that be too much of a pain?
04-19-2007, 08:17 PM
#116
Roadrash = Exfoliating
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stuntshine State, FL USA
Posts: 1,738
Re: XDL thread........
(truncated for post reference)
Thanks dear, it was indeed helpful. And I agree 100%. We both knew he didn't hit some of his tricks off the checklist, but we were also confused as to whether drifting counted as a burnout, etc etc.. He also chose not to do switchbacks as everyone else was doing them, then too late we heard that was earning people difficulty points due to the short space. Also we weren't sure if anything beyond the arch was supposed to be counted or not, in fact we both thought that space wasn't even supposed to be used in the actual run, but saw others using it, or even dropping their bikes turning around in it, & was unclear if that was faulted or not. Plus we didn't know that until the bike came down, an endless number of tricks could count even after the flag? Still not clear on some of that stuff. So some of the questions applied to him, some didn't. Just wanted to gain some clarification for future reference & so on. I'll post more questions as I remember them. But it still would be nice to get the actual scoring as feedback for analyzation & the most specific constructive criticism to apply to his runs in the future.
Thanks again for taking a moment to tell me what you noticed yourself! Much appreciated.
Thanks dear, it was indeed helpful. And I agree 100%. We both knew he didn't hit some of his tricks off the checklist, but we were also confused as to whether drifting counted as a burnout, etc etc.. He also chose not to do switchbacks as everyone else was doing them, then too late we heard that was earning people difficulty points due to the short space. Also we weren't sure if anything beyond the arch was supposed to be counted or not, in fact we both thought that space wasn't even supposed to be used in the actual run, but saw others using it, or even dropping their bikes turning around in it, & was unclear if that was faulted or not. Plus we didn't know that until the bike came down, an endless number of tricks could count even after the flag? Still not clear on some of that stuff. So some of the questions applied to him, some didn't. Just wanted to gain some clarification for future reference & so on. I'll post more questions as I remember them. But it still would be nice to get the actual scoring as feedback for analyzation & the most specific constructive criticism to apply to his runs in the future.
Thanks again for taking a moment to tell me what you noticed yourself! Much appreciated.
04-19-2007, 08:20 PM
#117
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Re: XDL thread........
how bout making a judging system that actually judges which rider is the best out there instead of meeting criteria....i dont see wat the difference should be from a comp to your local spot......you dont need a piece of paper and 4 freinds opinions when u go to a spot to know who the sickest rider is....and i kno sum people are real one sided, and im not saying they should win, but i mean so wat if a person cant link 8 tricks into a hc fig 8 burnout....all the riding in comps looks forced cus people are forced to ride how they normally dont....if u just let them go and kill it then decided i think it wud be alot better, not to mention the people who everyone thinks should win...prolly would....
04-19-2007, 08:44 PM
#119
Roadrash = Exfoliating
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stuntshine State, FL USA
Posts: 1,738
Re: XDL thread........
how bout making a judging system that actually judges which rider is the best out there instead of meeting criteria....i dont see wat the difference should be from a comp to your local spot......you dont need a piece of paper and 4 freinds opinions when u go to a spot to know who the sickest rider is....and i kno sum people are real one sided, and im not saying they should win, but i mean so wat if a person cant link 8 tricks into a hc fig 8 burnout....all the riding in comps looks forced cus people are forced to ride how they normally dont....if u just let them go and kill it then decided i think it wud be alot better, not to mention the people who everyone thinks should win...prolly would....
I saw too many of the guys scrambling to knock out a laundry list of tricks & end up riding in far worse style than usual, and the crowd appeal & style element suffered for it. People in the crowds don't always understand the difficulty or technical aspect of it, and so the superfast scrambles just end up becoming a blur to them, and many of the crowd/camera appealing special signature tricks some of these boys have get dropped off the repertoire for sake of compromising points potential. Those tricks are the things the crowd comes to see most-- like the wrecks & maneuver highlights of Nascar for example.
Yes, there are absolutely riders who rise to the challenge & pull it all off. And they win, & earned it! But if we don't try to appeal to the crowds just a bit more, we don't fill the stands, we don't get event sponsors, we don't have high quality events, and we don't break through into as highly regarded a sport as we are striving for it to be.
04-19-2007, 08:48 PM
#120
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Location: O'side, CA
Age: 44
Posts: 2,198
Re: XDL thread........
how bout making a judging system that actually judges which rider is the best out there instead of meeting criteria....i dont see wat the difference should be from a comp to your local spot......you dont need a piece of paper and 4 freinds opinions when u go to a spot to know who the sickest rider is....and i kno sum people are real one sided, and im not saying they should win, but i mean so wat if a person cant link 8 tricks into a hc fig 8 burnout....all the riding in comps looks forced cus people are forced to ride how they normally dont....if u just let them go and kill it then decided i think it wud be alot better, not to mention the people who everyone thinks should win...prolly would....
that would defeat the purpose of a comp. a comp isnt about ONLY wheelies or endos or burnouts or acro. XDL is about havin an ALL AROUND game. not to mention, MOST people dont pay attention to detail or dont know how hard some tricks are. the criteria is givin to EVERY rider. if they dont agree to it, then dont compete. COMPETITIONS ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. cough*BULLO*cough
look at it this way, take the sickest trick. do you HONESTLY think Josh Clems back flip from a watch tower was better then AC's 180 endo bunny hop???
and thats why "the people" arent the judges......................
