Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
#121
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
I agree with E-DUB!!
+there is a big difference between competition and a show. You can ride at your shows like clowns ride their one-wheelers. A competiton is about skill.
and D you should quit training.. your powerwheelies are getting too smooth for Pauly-tricks
+there is a big difference between competition and a show. You can ride at your shows like clowns ride their one-wheelers. A competiton is about skill.
and D you should quit training.. your powerwheelies are getting too smooth for Pauly-tricks
#122
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by martino
i think people respond to the energy level you put out. I remember a run by Phieffer in 03, totally pumped up full sprint pushing his bike and himself as hard as he could go. He looked like he was on crack. People went apeshit over that show.
#123
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
"I got into riding because of the speed not the stunts and riding a 180hp bike vs barely 100hp is way funner."
You're on the right track, the high speed stuff is definitely the crowd pleaser. The stakes are higher and so goes the excitement level.
You're on the right track, the high speed stuff is definitely the crowd pleaser. The stakes are higher and so goes the excitement level.
#125
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Darius
I've got a new outlook on stunt competitions and how the general public and even mild enthusiast views our performances. I've done a few shows lately in front of a large non motorcycle audience's. I stood back in the crowd at stuntwars watching peoples runs and seeing what got the most attention from the people. There were alot of riders even big name guys that did some difficult tricks and the crowd was silent? Pfieffer comes by on the trials bike looking at the crowd doing a sit down wheelie pointing at them and they go crazy. Now most of us know it's about as hard as doing a one handed wheelie on a xr-50. Definatly not as hard or technical than someone busting combos on a big bike down the track but I saw many people do it and it was crickets in the stands! I love doing circles combo's, getting into highchairs and back out just because it's challenging to me when I'm riding and that makes it fun. But the crowd could probably care less about basic circles combos. I'm sure they would like to see getting in n out of highchair but you would most likely get the same response from them doing a circle with one handing off waving at them smiling. You can look at Pfieffers run at SW, nothing too technical about it but the crowd loved it and I thought it was sick too when I watched it from the stands. Just like Ac farias, the guy doesnt have a big bag of tricks but the tricks he does do he's got on lock and makes it look good. The 180 stoppie to wheelie then circle is the like standard trick for the euros. The more I think about it I realize it really doesnt matter what kind of bike you ride either. You could probably win stuntwars on a bone stock bike if you had your **** planned out right. What's the point of riding 600cc bikes now? Nobody gives a **** about the technical little tricks you can do on them and really it's not that exciting to watch besides a few tricks. I'm thinking I'm gonna go back to a bone stock 06 1000rr besides some gearing, cage, dampner etc. I figure I could pull off a sick enough run on it to entertain any crowd. I got into riding because of the speed not the stunts and riding a 180hp bike vs barely 100hp is way funner. Watching someone kill it on a bike like that I believe would be more entertaining. If we start gearing our sport towards the tricks that makes the crowds go ooohhhhh I believe it will get us where we want to be. I mean what the's point of wasting your time on technical **** when someone could skitch off the back and get the crowd going 10 times more? Any thoughts??
#126
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Your definately right D. Most people at these shows and competitions don`t understand the technicality of the tricks. They probably paid good money to get into the venue and all they really want is entertainment. I can almost guarantee, You get a guy to do a circle combo and then get somebody to go past doing a rolling burnout on the rev limiter and he will get the bigger cheer from the crowd. This is something we have noticed over in the UK for a long time now.
#127
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 373
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Matt Gorka
Next comp, here are the rules: 10up max gearing and you must REMOVE the rear brake assembly from your bike.
I remember when people used to loop their bikes. What happened? Did everyone just get that good?I don't want my posts to sound negative, but I would say that I'm right up there with having the most heart and love for this sport as anyone.....and it's beginning to bore me. I guess I'm old school. I'm all about more and more people getting involved, but it seems like that might be partly because the risk factor is diminishing. Solution? Don't know. Maybe it's just the way things are going to be from now on. 20 up rear sprockets, first gear and handbrakes. Our sport is 25mph and now anybody and their brother can do it. That's good for participation, but bad for shows and attracting spectators and bigtime exposure.
Does it appeal to people who don't ride, or just stunters? I don't know.
Not to knock, but most stunters that entered stuntwars probably couldn't enter the comp I mentioned above. Why? Because it would scare the hell out of them and they'd probaby eat it. It would also show their total dependency for the rear brake and overall lack of talent and control. There is a reason this sport got to where it is. Risk, being crazy. Eating **** and roadrash. People like the Starboyz. Being something that people were deathly afraid of and had to witness for themselves. To tell their friends their boy was loony and you had to see him ride. Now, I could do a circle wheelie in front of an old lady and her heartrate probably wouldn't change. I remember doing wheelies on the highway and people freaking out yelling at me, telling me I was going to kill myself.
Where is the push? Where are the *****? Where is the risk? Are we crazy or nutless? Are we safe or extreme? Are we worthy for X-Games or just a parking lot side show?
I don't even know why I posted this or what outcome I was looking to achieve.
It's just something I've been feeling. Figured I'd share it.
Take it for what it's worth...or not worth.
Respectfully,
Matt Gorka
I remember when people used to loop their bikes. What happened? Did everyone just get that good?I don't want my posts to sound negative, but I would say that I'm right up there with having the most heart and love for this sport as anyone.....and it's beginning to bore me. I guess I'm old school. I'm all about more and more people getting involved, but it seems like that might be partly because the risk factor is diminishing. Solution? Don't know. Maybe it's just the way things are going to be from now on. 20 up rear sprockets, first gear and handbrakes. Our sport is 25mph and now anybody and their brother can do it. That's good for participation, but bad for shows and attracting spectators and bigtime exposure.
Does it appeal to people who don't ride, or just stunters? I don't know.
Not to knock, but most stunters that entered stuntwars probably couldn't enter the comp I mentioned above. Why? Because it would scare the hell out of them and they'd probaby eat it. It would also show their total dependency for the rear brake and overall lack of talent and control. There is a reason this sport got to where it is. Risk, being crazy. Eating **** and roadrash. People like the Starboyz. Being something that people were deathly afraid of and had to witness for themselves. To tell their friends their boy was loony and you had to see him ride. Now, I could do a circle wheelie in front of an old lady and her heartrate probably wouldn't change. I remember doing wheelies on the highway and people freaking out yelling at me, telling me I was going to kill myself.
Where is the push? Where are the *****? Where is the risk? Are we crazy or nutless? Are we safe or extreme? Are we worthy for X-Games or just a parking lot side show?
I don't even know why I posted this or what outcome I was looking to achieve.
It's just something I've been feeling. Figured I'd share it.
Take it for what it's worth...or not worth.
Respectfully,
Matt Gorka
#128
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
So competitions in the future: Everybody does a powerwheelie, a christ, a 90mph stoppie (with a tankslapper) and a revlimiter burnout?
And how the **** does that make stunters better from the other riders?
I could do circles on my cbr600 on the second time stunting a bigbike and people are whining about circles being too technical stuff. Was it the second time riding when I should have stopped the stepping upp and try to tone down my tricks so I could do something that the couch-potatoes can understand.
I ride for myself.. and still the most people like to see me ride and some people are amaized how it's possible to control a bike like that.
If you show someone a powerwheelie or a burnout they wont wonder how it's possible. They wont be stunned.
And how the **** does that make stunters better from the other riders?
I could do circles on my cbr600 on the second time stunting a bigbike and people are whining about circles being too technical stuff. Was it the second time riding when I should have stopped the stepping upp and try to tone down my tricks so I could do something that the couch-potatoes can understand.
I ride for myself.. and still the most people like to see me ride and some people are amaized how it's possible to control a bike like that.
If you show someone a powerwheelie or a burnout they wont wonder how it's possible. They wont be stunned.
#129
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
i think most non stunters enjoy the wild destructive side of stunt riding. and i think thats hard to do at a compitition or track. setting stuff on fire. bikes blowing up. dragging them around behind a truck. wheelies by cops... circle wheelies inside the garage, or stoppies into the van then hidding. all the stuff u find packed in the dvds. its hard to do that at a track or w/ an audiance. an example was ftp4. i thought it was basic and not very tech. but very entertaining for a non stunter. fast wheelies. highchairs down the expressway in tshirt and shorts. personality sells too. i bought a jason britton dvd and i think hes an amazing rider. but i thought the dvd was boring. but ya watch the extras and it was the best ever. the singing in the suv w/ the big teeth and busting ***** was awesome. delivering pizzas and stunting the moped... "serving it up" i think is very entertaining cuz he does it all.. destuctive and tech.... good mix .... he entertains but still shows his skill. my point is as far as showmanship and entertaining crowds the battleground u perform on at stuntshows is a tough envirement to shine and give people what they wanna see.
#130
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by mekrew
ALOT OF SMOKE .. people love burnouts for some reason
#131
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Felces
you sure? idk i've always found burnouts boring... unless you're doing them at 50+ mphish
~FSPalex
#132
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Red
Stunt competitions and stunt shows are two very different things. It's like comparing apples to oranges. At a comp, you're trying to win and be as technical as possible, with combos and tech tricks. At a show, the crowd just wants to see a good show, not 500 circles in a row. They don't give a crap about tech stuff. They want danger, smoke and wrecks.
#133
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Yess KRONO me and you should put up a show and just crash our bikes for the fans! ......................:YEAH
Sorry Im in it for the rush, I wouldnt know about a crowd other than people that watch in local traffic. Just have fun with it
Sorry Im in it for the rush, I wouldnt know about a crowd other than people that watch in local traffic. Just have fun with it
#135
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
when D was here in AZ at the ifma XSBA show i think his fast foot down circle burn outs killed it.. i was the only one to say WOOOOO at his frogs and left side right foot stag circles LOL
#136
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Darius
I've got a new outlook on stunt competitions and how the general public and even mild enthusiast views our performances. I've done a few shows lately in front of a large non motorcycle audience's. I stood back in the crowd at stuntwars watching peoples runs and seeing what got the most attention from the people. There were alot of riders even big name guys that did some difficult tricks and the crowd was silent? Pfieffer comes by on the trials bike looking at the crowd doing a sit down wheelie pointing at them and they go crazy. Now most of us know it's about as hard as doing a one handed wheelie on a xr-50. Definatly not as hard or technical than someone busting combos on a big bike down the track but I saw many people do it and it was crickets in the stands! I love doing circles combo's, getting into highchairs and back out just because it's challenging to me when I'm riding and that makes it fun. But the crowd could probably care less about basic circles combos. I'm sure they would like to see getting in n out of highchair but you would most likely get the same response from them doing a circle with one handing off waving at them smiling. You can look at Pfieffers run at SW, nothing too technical about it but the crowd loved it and I thought it was sick too when I watched it from the stands. Just like Ac farias, the guy doesnt have a big bag of tricks but the tricks he does do he's got on lock and makes it look good. The 180 stoppie to wheelie then circle is the like standard trick for the euros. The more I think about it I realize it really doesnt matter what kind of bike you ride either. You could probably win stuntwars on a bone stock bike if you had your **** planned out right. What's the point of riding 600cc bikes now? Nobody gives a **** about the technical little tricks you can do on them and really it's not that exciting to watch besides a few tricks. I'm thinking I'm gonna go back to a bone stock 06 1000rr besides some gearing, cage, dampner etc. I figure I could pull off a sick enough run on it to entertain any crowd. I got into riding because of the speed not the stunts and riding a 180hp bike vs barely 100hp is way funner. Watching someone kill it on a bike like that I believe would be more entertaining. If we start gearing our sport towards the tricks that makes the crowds go ooohhhhh I believe it will get us where we want to be. I mean what the's point of wasting your time on technical **** when someone could skitch off the back and get the crowd going 10 times more? Any thoughts??
#137
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
one other crappy thing is some of these tech tricks absorb so much time and bike parts that you not only go broke but you lose focus on your other tricks in your bag and come show time you choke alil but damn that foot down circle was tight
#138
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Originally Posted by Darius
I've got a new outlook on stunt competitions and how the general public and even mild enthusiast views our performances. I've done a few shows lately in front of a large non motorcycle audience's. I stood back in the crowd at stuntwars watching peoples runs and seeing what got the most attention from the people. There were alot of riders even big name guys that did some difficult tricks and the crowd was silent? Pfieffer comes by on the trials bike looking at the crowd doing a sit down wheelie pointing at them and they go crazy. Now most of us know it's about as hard as doing a one handed wheelie on a xr-50. Definatly not as hard or technical than someone busting combos on a big bike down the track but I saw many people do it and it was crickets in the stands! I love doing circles combo's, getting into highchairs and back out just because it's challenging to me when I'm riding and that makes it fun. But the crowd could probably care less about basic circles combos. I'm sure they would like to see getting in n out of highchair but you would most likely get the same response from them doing a circle with one handing off waving at them smiling. You can look at Pfieffers run at SW, nothing too technical about it but the crowd loved it and I thought it was sick too when I watched it from the stands. Just like Ac farias, the guy doesnt have a big bag of tricks but the tricks he does do he's got on lock and makes it look good. The 180 stoppie to wheelie then circle is the like standard trick for the euros. The more I think about it I realize it really doesnt matter what kind of bike you ride either. You could probably win stuntwars on a bone stock bike if you had your **** planned out right. What's the point of riding 600cc bikes now? Nobody gives a **** about the technical little tricks you can do on them and really it's not that exciting to watch besides a few tricks. I'm thinking I'm gonna go back to a bone stock 06 1000rr besides some gearing, cage, dampner etc. I figure I could pull off a sick enough run on it to entertain any crowd. I got into riding because of the speed not the stunts and riding a 180hp bike vs barely 100hp is way funner. Watching someone kill it on a bike like that I believe would be more entertaining. If we start gearing our sport towards the tricks that makes the crowds go ooohhhhh I believe it will get us where we want to be. I mean what the's point of wasting your time on technical **** when someone could skitch off the back and get the crowd going 10 times more? Any thoughts??
Euros are the best in entertaining the crowd...looking at vids from stuntwars only one rider kept me entertained trough whole run, Josh(??) from controlled insanity, that run was soo well put together...fast and cool,still not euro style,but veeery good.
Its not about bikes being stock though...euros ride streetfighters aswell,but the way they put show together is so different than in Us,just look at carmichel (or whatever his name is...british...sposored by triumph),hoolly ****, his shows are just insane!All the technical **** plus alooot of speed,it just looks like he will die if the trick he is doing will go wrong...u wont think the same if u see someone riding in circles and jumping around the bie
Having skills to be best in stunting, and having skills to be best in both stunting and impressing the crowd are 2 different things
Peace
#139
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Oh,and one more thing:
[QUOTE]Most riders in the US (and no disrespect to any of you cats) do a killer run without ever looking at the crowd, throw the peace sign at the end of the run, and then go hurry up and put on their PIMPIT wife-beater and do-rag and walk around acting like 50cent for the rest of the day. From the bleachers it gives the @sshole/don't care if you clap for me or not vibe.
Gotta show people you care about them being there and that you are having fun entertaining them. If not, the comps are going to have less and less people there every year.
[QUOTE]
And thats one of the reasons why euros have these "GAY" open-face helmets...so crowd can see them having fun on their bikes,to see them doing something ****ing sick with a smile on their faces...
Just search for some pics of Ac-farias or especially pfeiffer,never seen a pic of him doing a trick where he wasnt smilling
gangsta image wont sell guys...even though i like it somehow,but some of u just go overboard
[QUOTE]Most riders in the US (and no disrespect to any of you cats) do a killer run without ever looking at the crowd, throw the peace sign at the end of the run, and then go hurry up and put on their PIMPIT wife-beater and do-rag and walk around acting like 50cent for the rest of the day. From the bleachers it gives the @sshole/don't care if you clap for me or not vibe.
Gotta show people you care about them being there and that you are having fun entertaining them. If not, the comps are going to have less and less people there every year.
[QUOTE]
And thats one of the reasons why euros have these "GAY" open-face helmets...so crowd can see them having fun on their bikes,to see them doing something ****ing sick with a smile on their faces...
Just search for some pics of Ac-farias or especially pfeiffer,never seen a pic of him doing a trick where he wasnt smilling
gangsta image wont sell guys...even though i like it somehow,but some of u just go overboard
#140
Re: Thoughts about competition, crowd entertainment
Well... look at it like this... If you look at skateboarding (which I've been involved in since 86') It really goes in waves... There is no set style for a sport... **** would get mad technical... with cats like Daewon... then they would go burly and heshed out like Jamie Thomas hittin huge rails...back to tech, then back to hesh and so on.... Of course people who don't know the sport are gonna like the big cc bikes and the fast ****... But they don't know the sport...they also like seeing wrecks at a Nascar Race or a dude get checked in a hockey game. We need to stop speculating and just be patient... The sport does need to be a rider-based audience and atmosphere...cuz if we're riding for non-motorcycle crowds all the time,...well...then we might as well just be in the carnival gettin shot out of a cannon. The sport will develope and maybe it will get bigger. I just think we should let it take it's natural course and not rush it's growth or else we'll end up making it cheezy as hell.
Sorry for the ramble.
Now as far as straight crowd entertainment goes...Yeah, I agree with you, Darius. ****... All we gotta do is nod and point at the crowd while doin a wheelie and they freak out...that or just stand on the tank. The crowd loves GRANDSTANDING. So yeah, that works... But on the other hand you're an ambassador for this sport because you're an innovator and an extremely gifted rider. Like it or not, it kinda falls into your hands to help us educate the masses with what can really be done. They might not get it now, but they will after a while. So I say keep it tech, and find ways to grandstand the tech ****.
Sorry for the ramble.
Now as far as straight crowd entertainment goes...Yeah, I agree with you, Darius. ****... All we gotta do is nod and point at the crowd while doin a wheelie and they freak out...that or just stand on the tank. The crowd loves GRANDSTANDING. So yeah, that works... But on the other hand you're an ambassador for this sport because you're an innovator and an extremely gifted rider. Like it or not, it kinda falls into your hands to help us educate the masses with what can really be done. They might not get it now, but they will after a while. So I say keep it tech, and find ways to grandstand the tech ****.