hot magma

I wanted to start a thread about the future of stunting for a while now because I have been concerned about the futility of our current situation.
Now I'm not all that bright as some of you may already know but I'm going to give it a shot anyway.
I've been around for a while as an avid stunter, producer of stunt content, competitor (you could say also-ran it wouldn’t hurt my feelings) and spectator. I have noticed many things that are totally within our control as an industry.

INDUSTRIES THAT WE COULD STEAL IDEAS FROM
FMX-- If I am not mistaken it's the same 16 guys at every comp and it is all planned out as to who will win. An executive decision made solely for the betterment of the sport. As in your video pops next week you win this weekend. You just finished racing the outdoor nationals and ended up 25 overall, your star is fading, nothing like a FMX win to get your Q rating going again. Now I'm not questioning their skill, I'm pointing out their biz plan.
Have a competitor line up similar to FMX.

WWF-- There is good guys and there are bad guys. I hate the WWF but half of the country doesn't and that's a lot of perspective customers. In addition the hot girls in the WWF are a good way to keep the male 18-54 audience interested and these are the people with the most spending power.
Some competitors will be loved some will be hated. Hot girls should be worked in somehow and they should add to the drama. I think this point has already been accomplished without even trying.

BOOM BOOM HUCK JAM -- Was it ’03 that skateboarders, freestyle BMX and FMX got together to tour the country putting on an exhibition of their skills in 20,000 seat arenas.
It worked for them could it work for stunters?

NASCAR -- I did a story on NASCAR before it got as huge as it is today. The one thing I was surprised about in the story was that there used to be so many freebies. They would give just about anything away and the fans love freebies. People would even leave the track with a used tire from their favorite competitor. I am not saying stunters should give a 12 year old a 208 with steel belts hanging out of it, but you get the idea.
I have gone to Unadilla every year for the past 25 years and at the end of the race people would run onto the track and grab tear offs, sponsor banners and I’ve seen a few racers throw gloves into the crowd and the fans go nuts for that stuff. I know that money is tight but I feel this should not be overlooked.

MARKETING 101
PROMOTERS/SHOWS -- Anyone who has been around here for more than a week knows that promoters have screwed all the top dogs in the game at least once. Also the judging at some events has been sub-standard to say the least. Plus what are most of the promoters really risking the venue is already there which if I'm not mistaken covers the insurance. So in all actuality what are they really risking, advertising dollars now you can me a liar but I haven't really seen much in the way of event or show promotion? Also I have rented a track before so 10 of us can get together and practice stunting/racing. It's expensive but certainly not out of reach to most of us.
Set a price and if the promoters don’t go for it, fu(k em. You know they are not going to risk their *** on a 400lb bike for a few hundred bucks.

DRAMA AND SEX-- Has anyone ever noticed that the threads with the most views on SL are all about the drama or sex? People love drama. People love sex.

BREAKING THE LAW -- I know many of you are opposed to street stunting and putting this sport under a bad light but if someone made a DVD of just running cops for 45 minutes who here wouldn’t buy it? I would pre- order that title. I am not saying to do this but there was a movie called Scarface a TV program by the name of The Sopranos a video game called GTA San Andreas and a ton of music categorized as gangster rap.
All of these examples glorify lawlessness and all of these examples are massively successful.

GIVING THE AUDIENCE WHAT THEY WANT, OR SHOULD I SAY WHAT THEY EXPECT -- This year alone I have seen a half dozen news reports on how we, the stunting community at large is a bunch of no good law breaking punks. I know this; you know this so lets embrace this fact.
No press is bad press unless of course they used footage from one of your videos without paying some sort of royalty.

WE NEED A FACE – A spokesman so to speak, someone who looks good on camera and is articulate and has to be at the top of this game. I would do this but I’m just too busy besides the fact that I can’t do circles.
Of all the points I’ve attempted to make I feel without this stunting will not move forward.

CONCLUSION
If you made it this far than may be I didn’t waste the last 30 minutes of my life. The bottom line is what I am proposing is to take the top 10 or so pro stunters split them into 2 groups or keep it individual and have them do battle at select venues throughout the country. Make it more like a performance than an exhibition. In certain cities that have a large stunt community you could possibly take one or two local stunters and put them in the mix.
There is probably a ton of stuff I’ve missed here and the above are just thoughts or ideas, will they work, I don’t have a clue but I figured it was a start and with 2005 just a few days away it seemed to be a good time to write this.
Good luck to all for ’05.

Bill McMahon

All very good points. If the top riders formed some sort of round table, union, what ever you want to call it in order for some collective bargaining to take place between the representatives of the sport and industry these ideas could all be implemented.

CHAO5

Damn.. I dunno if it'd all make a difference or not.. but thanks for putting in the time to put some ideas on paper... well screen. What about the rest of us, who are kinda crappy stunters, but can do some entertaining shiat? Is there anyway we could promote Stuntlife as a whole to meet for say a movie and have like 200 ppl doing Christs or standups or something? That'd be pretty cool in a Torqueish style movie.. although they'd prolly just computer generate it.

SoCalRPM

Very articulate and well written. Certainly not 30 mins waisted.

GIMICS: I totally agree with the WWF aspect of it. Sure, it's a gimick (for lack of a better word), but at least it's something. All stunters can't be Starboyz. That's their style, their look and they own it. Mr. Pink himself, Kane. He get's lots of **** for wearing pink, but every time someone gives him ****, it makes his "gimic" bigger.

GOOD GUYS/BAD GUYS: We have to have someone to root for and identify with. FMX has good guys/bad guys and both have their followings. There was a post here on betting on the riders. Sure it was just for fun, but if I had $$ riding on a rider, you'd be damn sure I'd be rooting for him.

GIRLS: I've been trying to keep this aspect of it as much as I can. Believe me, it's a better gig in theory then it is in reality.

BAD IMAGE: Wow, never though of it that way. It seems the more we try and change the bad image of stunting, the more we fail. Perhaps we should just embrace it. For cripe sakes, Snoop Dog is a Gangsta your grandma could love.

FACE: I don't think this position has been filled yet. We need a Tony Hawk of the sport. The clean cut good guy to make it OK to send your kids to a stunt comp.

For those that want to keep it on the streets and underground, that's fine. That's an excellent comparison about skateboarding. I don't know much about skate boarding but I know who Tony Hawk is but that doesn't stop the kids from riding in downtown LA.

One more thing to remember that I read here a while back. Right now, stunters are only famous to other stunters. We need to remember the new guy starting out on a Kantana asking how to power wheelie doesn't know you have circles on lock. A 3 min answer rather then blowing them off can make a fan for life, when they see you do 20 circles.

robert929lewis

It seems obvious that stunting can't stand alone without having to attach itself to other organizations for publicity, to become major. I guess that's what the goal is, for stunting to be a major "sport". I just hope that those that have injected themselves as the spokespersons of the "sport" don't sell the sport out just to be popular. I'm not tryin' to be negative, but I do remember what Nascar used to be before the politically correct bueracrats started running the country. I remember what the NFL was like before they started putting skirts on the quarterbacks and handcuffs on the defensive backs, I can recall a time when it obviously didn't matter if someone in baseball was on steriods when it seemed that certain records where untouchable, and I could go on, but I don't want to get more off topic than I have already. It seems that everyone involved with this "sport" has the right plan a solution to the "sports" problems, and yet the problems are still the same. I'm not knocking the progress that those people have made, not at all, and I respect their efforts, I really do, but unless this "sport" can attract a serious and committed sponsor, one willing to listen as well as share ideas, and leave the rules and the way the sport is run to the sanctioning body, then it'll go the way it's been going. Almost there, but not quite, and the rest of the stunting community, the non-pro's, as well as some pro's will be to blame for not supporting the "sport".. If this "sport" is on the verge of being major, all I ask is just don't sell out.......Everything in America doesn't have to be done the American way........How 'bout letting stuntin' be done the stunters way and fck all the politics... I vote for a nation of stunters by stunters.... If this seems as if I'm hatin' well ask yo' self, why are there so many better mousetraps and yet the mice are still runnin' around?.........Open yo eyes to see who is yo enemy, is it the motherfockers dyin' or the motherfockers killin you.......Think about it....Late

2 Vicious Freestyle

I totally agree with that. Look at places like Woodward, all pro's teachin kids how to skate, or bike. I had alotta friends that went to that camp, and everyone did nothing for the next year but talk about what pro taught them what. Same kinda concept.

Kaneone

Awesome thread. I agree with all of it 100%!!!

Only problem is, as we all stand individuals its going to be some serious uphill battles... if we all, as stunters, helped each other out and at least for the business end stopped viewing each other as the enemy we really could achieve a lot more for us all in the end.

-kane

robert929lewis

Kane, with what you just said, if you could embed that concept into the minds of the others, then this "sport" couldn't help but be successful... This guy sounds like he gets it to me, but what do I know, I should be grateful the '"pro's" would even talk to me.........hahahaha.... ........Late.......
Free C.

Kaneone

Some of the "Pro's" still wont talk to me...

don't fret...

-kane

keeth

Wow to be honest this is probably the most intelligent thing I've read in here in awhile. All of these ideas that have been stated here are things that would help propel this sport in a positive direction for sure. Not everyone agress which direction that should be though. All of these are ideas I've had in my head for some time not just sure of how to organize them into a reality. If a large group of us worked together toward a common goal it would benefit us all for sure. But it is very difficult to have a team with the same ideals, goals, and even commitment. Everyone wants it but not as many are willing to work for it. It seems to me that many of the event promoters that are out there should spend some more time getting the general public at these events as having an audiance other than stunters is important. The upcoming event in Houston is a step in the right direction for our sport. So everyone including non-participants should do their best to support it and whatever it's outcome is.

keeth

The only problem is getting everyone to do it with equal commitment and passion as everyone else on the team.

robert929lewis

Kane they don't talk to you 'cause they ain't you.......Ooops maybe I wasn't
supposed to let that cat out of the bag.......Anyway you keep doin' what your doin' you seem to be one of the few to be able to express, with some intelligence, a viable solution or at least a step towards one.... I'll see you in Houston, and bring the biggest Kaneone t-shirt you got, I'll hook you up on the funds for it..........Late.........Free C

robert929lewis

I guess now I'll be moderated for solicitation.......Oh well, better than prosecuted for it.......Late..........Free C

keeth

God forbid anybody ever try to sell something. Especially if it's to support what they are doing for a living. By the way we still got Titantium Plates and Some Videos some of you might not have seen before. OOPS did I say that out loud. We'll see you in Houston.

Kaneone

Hot Magma-

Interesting note:

FMX encompases all of the above points, WWF style antics with each rider having a defined style and look. ie: metal mulisha = bad boys, while pastrana and adams represent the good guys...". Along with the Crusty Daemons tour taking FMX all over the world combined with sex, fire, mayhem, and guns...

not to mention that FMX also worms its way into peoples houses through other media besides competition, and exhibition. You have Reality TV Shows, Movies, Video Games, Toys, Posters, tee-shirts a multitude of Magazines Commercials all aimmed towards and sporting FMX riders and friends. Their whole precieved lifestyle right there for everyone to have a piece of.

on top of that look at the media coverage some of the riders as individuals receive. High Speed Car wrecks, Backflips into the Grand Canyon, Big Air in your face Guiness book records, Riders Purchasing and owning Highly Publicized Tattoo Studios located in a World Famous Las Vegas Hotel. not to mention the overall image that the riders of any truly profitable PRO sport.

Along with very graphic and commonly viewed and wrecks and injuries.

Your only as big as you make yourself out to be...

If street extreme riders gave as much attention to our own image, style, marketing, promoting, business plan concepts and ideas, proffessionalism, sponsorship contracts, video production, (spelling!?)... as we do our riding
our sport could definately explode.

Street Freestyle really needs some good dreamers with deep pockets to take control and help shape and create something that the american public wants.


what if?

-kane

nwstuntbike

very good stuff i like the good stunna/bad stunna thing ,hell i even beat up my own camera men from time to time that'll make good t.v i aggree mostly with all of us focusing our energy on helping one another and helping the sport,rather than walking around with a stick up there *** and talking **** over the internet

Trick

I think America loves badasses right now (Jesse James) we love him can u go anywhere with out seeing a west coast choppers t shirt
America wants to be bad why don't we capitalize on it
the wwf idea, HELL YEA !!!
we cant survive of pure talent if that were the case we would already be huge
what we need is show biz
torque, bike boys all good for are sport
and by the way this thread ****ING ROCKS

thaxs everyone

robert929lewis

I look forward to meeting you cats there, I hope this Houston event generates the same amount of excitement that this website has. That said, what I've witnessed on this site is, it seems like when someone has an opinion different from someone else (just about every thread) there is name-calling and alot ****-talking for no reason, other than the fact that this is the internet and people "talk" from the safety of their keyboard. Knowing good and damned well they wouldn't say these vicious things to another man's face. I don't advocate fighting at all, unless you're getting paid for it, but come on guys/girls with all of the new laws out there that directly effect what we do in public, do we really need any more adversaries??? I'm one of the many outspoken ones in this community, do I have the answers? Not to all of the questions, but I do know all of the bickering and the blatant exclusionary attitude towards some of the pro's and teams is exactly what a "sport" trying to grow doesn't need. I know about a few of the pro's not comming to the Houston event, due to schedules, money, etc., but some of the best ("pro's") weren't even invited. I've been told through pm's due to image, schedules, and alot of other crap I can't remember. If a guy/group couldn't be there that's one thing, but not to invite him/them 'cause of their image??? WOW.........When this "sport" first became visible to the mass public I thought it was about the riding, somewhere with all of the pimps.... oops, did I say that, I meant promoters getting involved it became more about the money....Classic recipe for selling out, think I'm wrong? Then someone tell me why is it seemingly sooooooooo hard for this "sport" to take off? We got the talent, we make the rules, and we can even find the venues
there's obviously a market for it, so what's the damned deal??????!!!!!!!!! If I'm wrong call me on it, I can accept it, if I'm wrong. What we as a community need to do is clean up our community and work together.....That's what I vote for, now really, who's with me???????

forcefedfreak

I didn't know all that stuff about FMX, but if it's true I just lost a lot of respect for those guys. On another note, I don't think stunting should have any similiarities to wrestling...wrestling sucks, wrestlers are just bad actors on steroids. As much as I hate Nascar, they are obviously doing something right...huge industry. Boom Boom Huck Jam also very cool...

keeth

I'm right there with you. There are a lot of "pimps" out there in many different shapes or forms. It's sad really one person taking away from others just to benefit themselves, but it's even worse when that someone is your friend...