what is "balance point?"
11-21-2004, 07:15 PM
#1
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what is "balance point?"
what does it mean to you. i always though of it as being where you and the bike maintain the same position in a wheelie with no to minor throttle adjustment, and maintain the same speed.
now-a-days, your up at 12 balancing with the brakes, doing circles, stoppies, coasters, etc...
has the definiton of balance point changed as the riding capabilites have?
how would you describe the term?
just curious.
now-a-days, your up at 12 balancing with the brakes, doing circles, stoppies, coasters, etc...
has the definiton of balance point changed as the riding capabilites have?
how would you describe the term?
just curious.
11-21-2004, 07:22 PM
#3
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Re: what is "balance point?"
BP is anything past 11:15 ish heh.
BP is wherever the bike is at so that its not comming back down?
I dont htink 12 o'clock is BP unless your at 12 o'clock and not scrapin tail or the bar, because technically then your touching ground therefor not keepin the bike "balanced" well i guess you are from side to side... i dunno lol
BP is wherever the bike is at so that its not comming back down?
I dont htink 12 o'clock is BP unless your at 12 o'clock and not scrapin tail or the bar, because technically then your touching ground therefor not keepin the bike "balanced" well i guess you are from side to side... i dunno lol
11-21-2004, 07:29 PM
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Re: what is "balance point?"
Originally Posted by NovaMan
BP is anything past 11:15 ish heh.
BP is wherever the bike is at so that its not comming back down?
I dont htink 12 o'clock is BP unless your at 12 o'clock and not scrapin tail or the bar, because technically then your touching ground therefor not keepin the bike "balanced" well i guess you are from side to side... i dunno lol
BP is wherever the bike is at so that its not comming back down?
I dont htink 12 o'clock is BP unless your at 12 o'clock and not scrapin tail or the bar, because technically then your touching ground therefor not keepin the bike "balanced" well i guess you are from side to side... i dunno lol
see depending how deep you look into theres many differnt answers.
11-21-2004, 07:32 PM
#7
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Re: what is "balance point?"
Originally Posted by ZX-10R Urza
I always thought of it as the point in whcih the COM is directly above the point of contact. Am i wrong in assuming this?
11-21-2004, 07:48 PM
#8
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Re: what is "balance point?"
ok... when you look @ a definition of "running" it states various definitions(i think?) so likewise with "balance point" it can mean whatever you like.. and yes I think it would change when the rider changes.
11-21-2004, 08:04 PM
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Re: what is "balance point?"
Originally Posted by Magik
Your answer lies in the search function.... just type in "Balance Point" be on your way grasshopper.
11-21-2004, 08:05 PM
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Re: what is "balance point?"
blanace point is diff for every wheelie.a hc has a difffrent bp than a seat stander. since circles, 12's, no handers, etc all runn fo the idle there is a balance point. where the idle is carrying u , and ur using very lil to no brake. if ur not at it yet the front end drops cuz idle cant hold u up, and if ur to far back u stall because u use to much brake the wheelei slows down to much and stalls.
11-21-2004, 08:22 PM
#13
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Re: what is "balance point?"
Originally Posted by ruthlessriding
wtf 
What i mean, is the point in which the Center of Mass is above the point where the tire contacts the road. That also explains why stand ups can go higer than sitdowns, because your body changes the Center Of Mass of the bike, and pushes it more toward the wheels.
What most poeple think of balance point really isn't that. When they get to balance point, they still must use the throttle. you using the torque of the engine to keep the wheel up, but only a lil bit. That's why wheelies are higher at different speeds, because the engine can give less torque to hold the front up, and therefore you must go higher to be at that speed.
True balance point is when you can ride the wheelie without the brakes or engine, of course the friction of the engine and bearings will slow you down, so you must get BELOW true balance point, and then use the throttle to stay as a certain speed and to also keep the front up.
This may seem overcomplicated, but i did a project on it in geometry, so it just fell out.
11-21-2004, 08:48 PM
#14
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Re: what is "balance point?"
kid sure knows alot about doing wheelies on motorcycles for not even owning one...
people arnt always using throttle, all slow **** is practically done with idel alone, very small amout of throttle incase it drops below the point that it will be held up by idel vise veras with the rear break.
It was best said with "BP is the point where you dont pick up speed any longer and your RPM's drop and stay constant.
people arnt always using throttle, all slow **** is practically done with idel alone, very small amout of throttle incase it drops below the point that it will be held up by idel vise veras with the rear break.
It was best said with "BP is the point where you dont pick up speed any longer and your RPM's drop and stay constant.
11-21-2004, 09:13 PM
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Re: what is "balance point?"
[QUOTE=What most poeple think of balance point really isn't that. When they get to balance point, they still must use the throttle. you using the torque of the engine to keep the wheel up, but only a lil bit. That's why wheelies are higher at different speeds, because the engine can give less torque to hold the front up, and therefore you must go higher to be at that speed. [/QUOTE]
Great thread by the way.
You forgot one thing though. The height of wheelies isn't just determined by the weight of the bike, although that's the biggest thing, wheelies are usually lower at higher speeds.
Since you have an 80 mph wind right into the front of the bike it helps to push the bike up, making it "float" higher. Where at low speeds you don't have much wind resistance, making it al the bikes weight.
You made a good point about not actually being at BP because you're using a little bit of brake or gas to keep it up, however you aren't using much of either, just enough to keep you AT bp. Balance point really refers to the "pocket" of balance, where the bike moves up and down a little bit, but not going over backward or going back down foreward. And just a little bit of gas and brake are used to keep the bike in that "pocket."
Great thread by the way.
You forgot one thing though. The height of wheelies isn't just determined by the weight of the bike, although that's the biggest thing, wheelies are usually lower at higher speeds.
Since you have an 80 mph wind right into the front of the bike it helps to push the bike up, making it "float" higher. Where at low speeds you don't have much wind resistance, making it al the bikes weight.
You made a good point about not actually being at BP because you're using a little bit of brake or gas to keep it up, however you aren't using much of either, just enough to keep you AT bp. Balance point really refers to the "pocket" of balance, where the bike moves up and down a little bit, but not going over backward or going back down foreward. And just a little bit of gas and brake are used to keep the bike in that "pocket."
11-21-2004, 09:23 PM
#17
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Re: what is "balance point?"
Originally Posted by ZX-10R Urza
What i mean, is the point in which the Center of Mass is above the point where the tire contacts the road. That also explains why stand ups can go higer than sitdowns, because your body changes the Center Of Mass of the bike, and pushes it more toward the wheels.
What most poeple think of balance point really isn't that. When they get to balance point, they still must use the throttle. you using the torque of the engine to keep the wheel up, but only a lil bit. That's why wheelies are higher at different speeds, because the engine can give less torque to hold the front up, and therefore you must go higher to be at that speed.
True balance point is when you can ride the wheelie without the brakes or engine, of course the friction of the engine and bearings will slow you down, so you must get BELOW true balance point, and then use the throttle to stay as a certain speed and to also keep the front up.
This may seem overcomplicated, but i did a project on it in geometry, so it just fell out.
What most poeple think of balance point really isn't that. When they get to balance point, they still must use the throttle. you using the torque of the engine to keep the wheel up, but only a lil bit. That's why wheelies are higher at different speeds, because the engine can give less torque to hold the front up, and therefore you must go higher to be at that speed.
True balance point is when you can ride the wheelie without the brakes or engine, of course the friction of the engine and bearings will slow you down, so you must get BELOW true balance point, and then use the throttle to stay as a certain speed and to also keep the front up.
This may seem overcomplicated, but i did a project on it in geometry, so it just fell out.
11-21-2004, 09:33 PM
#18
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Re: what is "balance point?"
were talking about riding a wheelie if you dont know what balance point is bring it up a lil higher. you can talk about all your fancy scientific stuff till your blue in the face it doesnt mean nothing and it wont help you ride any better just go out and do it
if you dont know what balance point is bring it up a lil higher. you can talk about all your fancy scientific stuff till your blue in the face it doesnt mean nothing and it wont help you ride any better just go out and do it
11-21-2004, 11:31 PM
#19
Re: what is "balance point?"
so in a basic sum of all opinions, balance point seems to be the point where the bike "balances" without going forward or over backwards, as on a unicycle, you can keep a steady speed and ride for basically infinity if it need be if ya got enough gas, each wheelie has a differnet balance point, HC, Standup, Sitdown, tank etc, and above that they all change with the speed of the wheelie, I can do highway wheelies for miles, but have a hard time doing a slow wheelie without going over backwards and balancing it as Im no good at using the brake, as many of us know. the slow wheelies are much higher, and the highway are much lower dou to the wind factor. Now that this is all sumed up, go do a wheelie, when ya hit the balance point ya feel as though you have falen into a pocket, and the bikes engine noise kinda mellows out as well. the tine gets lower.
11-21-2004, 11:55 PM
#20
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Re: what is "balance point?"
If wind wasn't a factor balance point would be where the bike's center of mass was directly over the contact patch with the rider factored in on level ground. Wind doesn't just push the front of the bike up it provides resistance so that more torque can be applied to the rear tire without accelerating the bike. Same principle as riding a wheelie up a hill. The hill absorbs more torque the steeper it is thus allowing more throttle to be used without accelerating. The BP is lower going uphill than on flat and higher going downhill.
