Building a Supermotard
12-11-2003, 11:23 AM
#1
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Building a Supermotard
Alright i posted some thing about this on the motorcross forums only after did i think about putting it here .
Alright so heres the question i am posing to you. I have been looking very seriously in to the sport of Supermotard.
And i plan on building one up. Now for the problem i face. I own a 01 yz426f and have been riding it in the dirt for about a year and i would like to build up my supermotard to have some thing with about the same power charateristics.
So im pritty much looking for a 4 stroke bike that is atleast a 400cc. Since i personaly have almost no riding time on any dirt bike of this size other then my YZ id like your thoughts on what would be a good bike. Basicly once i get what bike i have decided on im going to lower it a bit, put on some 17 rims and slick tires. 4 piston brakes on a front 320mm disk. Then if the size isent putting out the amount of power i want im going to overbore engine, add a K&N, Rejet and find a nice pipe for it.
Im planning on taking this bike on the road so its going to have to suport lighting. But it is posable to put light coils on a motorcross bike so i dont want to rule them out.
The best thing i can come up with right now is a KTM Sx400 that a bike shop i know wants to sell to me for 2k (canadian) its an 02' but it droped a valuve and the pistol, rod, and valuves have to be replaced. i was thinking since it needs that i might as well rebore it to a 450.
Well since you guys know my basic idea what do you all think???
Alright so heres the question i am posing to you. I have been looking very seriously in to the sport of Supermotard.
And i plan on building one up. Now for the problem i face. I own a 01 yz426f and have been riding it in the dirt for about a year and i would like to build up my supermotard to have some thing with about the same power charateristics. So im pritty much looking for a 4 stroke bike that is atleast a 400cc. Since i personaly have almost no riding time on any dirt bike of this size other then my YZ id like your thoughts on what would be a good bike. Basicly once i get what bike i have decided on im going to lower it a bit, put on some 17 rims and slick tires. 4 piston brakes on a front 320mm disk. Then if the size isent putting out the amount of power i want im going to overbore engine, add a K&N, Rejet and find a nice pipe for it.
Im planning on taking this bike on the road so its going to have to suport lighting. But it is posable to put light coils on a motorcross bike so i dont want to rule them out.
The best thing i can come up with right now is a KTM Sx400 that a bike shop i know wants to sell to me for 2k (canadian) its an 02' but it droped a valuve and the pistol, rod, and valuves have to be replaced. i was thinking since it needs that i might as well rebore it to a 450.
Well since you guys know my basic idea what do you all think???
12-11-2003, 12:58 PM
#3
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the KTM's are big in the unlimited class. i beleive that they make like a 526 or something crazy like that. then there is the 450 class. if your gonna run your 426 you're gonna wanna get it punched as close to 450 as you can. if you dont want to do that, the CRF450R is the bike of choice for the 450 class from what ive seen. the AMA is runnin the american supermoto so id say check their website for rules and chit. 
12-11-2003, 01:20 PM
#4
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i'd go with the crf450...that is what i'm on and that is what all the other experts around New England are riding...the BASIC (read cheap) set up is as follows:
leave the suspension. leave the brakes. all you need are 17 in rims/hubs, and you will need a caliper bracket so you can use the original caliper. then you need a DOT front with a slick rear...if you want, i'll ask around for the hot setup...it is NOT slicks though...remember, the courses are supposed to be 20% dirt. you will also need hand guards.
i'm running mine stock everything except for wheels/hub/tires.
the money way is to get the ohlins front end (i've seen mixed resluts with lowering the bike, i'd prolly just adjust the rebound/compression damping), get the $600 rotor/caliper setup and go....
if you want to make it street legal, there are specific motard kits for that, or you can simply rewind the stator to support the lights, etc.
ktm has motard on lock as said before, in the OPEN class...but almost everyone will be on a 450...your 426 will not keep up unless you punch it out...
lemme know (via pm prolly) if you have anymore q's....i got a pretty decent line on info for this type of thing, and i am in the same boat as you....
on another note: Jeff Wood, a friend of mine, took around 20th at the AMA National Championship in Las Vegas a few weeks back---not bad seeing as how the competition was and considering he has motarded the biek only three times...
motard is the way to go!! i cant effing wait!!
Teach
leave the suspension. leave the brakes. all you need are 17 in rims/hubs, and you will need a caliper bracket so you can use the original caliper. then you need a DOT front with a slick rear...if you want, i'll ask around for the hot setup...it is NOT slicks though...remember, the courses are supposed to be 20% dirt. you will also need hand guards.
i'm running mine stock everything except for wheels/hub/tires.
the money way is to get the ohlins front end (i've seen mixed resluts with lowering the bike, i'd prolly just adjust the rebound/compression damping), get the $600 rotor/caliper setup and go....
if you want to make it street legal, there are specific motard kits for that, or you can simply rewind the stator to support the lights, etc.
ktm has motard on lock as said before, in the OPEN class...but almost everyone will be on a 450...your 426 will not keep up unless you punch it out...
lemme know (via pm prolly) if you have anymore q's....i got a pretty decent line on info for this type of thing, and i am in the same boat as you....
on another note: Jeff Wood, a friend of mine, took around 20th at the AMA National Championship in Las Vegas a few weeks back---not bad seeing as how the competition was and considering he has motarded the biek only three times...
motard is the way to go!! i cant effing wait!!
Teach
12-11-2003, 04:29 PM
#7
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Originally posted by steve02r6
Ok so im an idiot whats a supermotard
Ok so im an idiot whats a supermotard
My next one will be a Yamaha WR426. Comes street legal in Michigan. Damn fun rocking on the city streets. Won't go over 100mph but who cares?
If you have a fast internet connection check out http://www.redbullcopilot.com/ . That is the best site going to explain supermoto.
Last edited by bikefrk; 12-11-2003 at 04:32 PM.
12-11-2003, 05:19 PM
#8
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The thing you gotta know about a motard is that if its gonna be for the street make sure you arent going on any long distance trips or anything.
Motards are just dirtbikes with street tires on them, they arent made to be run at a steady rate of speed. If you do that you'll just foul plugs and give your self all sorts of tech problems. But if your going to race it or just use it to get a round town you should be golden.
Pretty much every big manufacturer has some sort of a "supermotard" yamaha has the wrs honda has the xrs kawsakis klxs and suzukis drs and the ktms rule the roost.
you can buy any one of these and do some engine mods and not have to worry about the lights or go all out and buy a dirt bike and take off from there.
but what everyone is saying is right, 17's preferably excel rims, might want new hubs too Talon makes kick *** hubs and definatley a bigger brake set up, now stock breaks are good but all the pros run 320mm disc up front that makes for one finger braking, anymore than that and you'll go over the bars(trust me)
Not that theres anything wrong with slicks, Doug Henry has been tearing it up on slicks on his YZ450 but for the street you might want something with a little tread to it.
good luck with everything, let us know how it goes
Motards are just dirtbikes with street tires on them, they arent made to be run at a steady rate of speed. If you do that you'll just foul plugs and give your self all sorts of tech problems. But if your going to race it or just use it to get a round town you should be golden.
Pretty much every big manufacturer has some sort of a "supermotard" yamaha has the wrs honda has the xrs kawsakis klxs and suzukis drs and the ktms rule the roost.
you can buy any one of these and do some engine mods and not have to worry about the lights or go all out and buy a dirt bike and take off from there.
but what everyone is saying is right, 17's preferably excel rims, might want new hubs too Talon makes kick *** hubs and definatley a bigger brake set up, now stock breaks are good but all the pros run 320mm disc up front that makes for one finger braking, anymore than that and you'll go over the bars(trust me)
Not that theres anything wrong with slicks, Doug Henry has been tearing it up on slicks on his YZ450 but for the street you might want something with a little tread to it.
good luck with everything, let us know how it goes
12-11-2003, 07:46 PM
#11
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Originally posted by PRZFYTR43
The thing you gotta know about a motard is that if its gonna be for the street make sure you arent going on any long distance trips or anything.
Motards are just dirtbikes with street tires on them, they arent made to be run at a steady rate of speed. If you do that you'll just foul plugs and give your self all sorts of tech problems. But if your going to race it or just use it to get a round town you should be golden.
The thing you gotta know about a motard is that if its gonna be for the street make sure you arent going on any long distance trips or anything.
Motards are just dirtbikes with street tires on them, they arent made to be run at a steady rate of speed. If you do that you'll just foul plugs and give your self all sorts of tech problems. But if your going to race it or just use it to get a round town you should be golden.
I don't know what you are saying about running at a constant throttle will foul plugs. If you run a big four stroke wide open for too long like trying to keep up with your buddies on sportbikes you will blow the hell out of the motor. A big four stroke is made for low end grunt,not top end extended running. After I geared my bike I could run at 80 mph all day long.
You will be lucky to get 60 miles out of a stock tank. It becomes a PITA because you will be at the gas station a couple of times a day because of it.
You will need to figure out what the majority of your riding will be and go from there. If you want to race with once a month road riding get a YZ450F,CR450F or a KTM525. The KTM can be bought with both dirt wheels and the correct setup for supermoto. The Yamaha and Honda will need a couple of thousand extra $'s dumped into them to get them ready for the track and even more if you want to ride the road.
If you want to ride the road and do an occasional trackday go for a XR650L,big KTM(not sure on the models available),Husqvarna(good luck on parts support from Italy) or push the limits and get a WR450F. The XR will need to be converted as will the WR. KTM and Husky sell street legal ready to roll supermotos.
If the support from the factory would have been better I wouldn't have sold my Husky. Man I loved that bike. Whack the throttle open in second,stand up and ride it out shifting into 6th gear wheelies. The 320mm Brembo front brake would flip you on your head if you weren't careful.
Originally posted by PRZFYTR43
Not that theres anything wrong with slicks, Doug Henry has been tearing it up on slicks on his YZ450 but for the street you might want something with a little tread to it.
Not that theres anything wrong with slicks, Doug Henry has been tearing it up on slicks on his YZ450 but for the street you might want something with a little tread to it.
They don't even race full slicks because they have to go from asphalt to dirt in a supermoto race. They start with a slick and then groove it for traction in the dirt. DO NOT USE SLICKS ON YOUR STREET SUPERMOTO
12-11-2003, 09:23 PM
#12
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Wow its great to see more people intrested in motards then my self. :D Ya one big problem im trying to solve is just that, running an engine for too long and it will require alot of tech work. Unfortunitly where i live i do a good amount of traveling. So that sorta leads me to a bigger bike, some thing like a klr650, xr 650 or Ktms Lc4 640 motards *wich the duke runs that engine, and no its not forsale i love that bike :D its an 03' with about 800 miles on it and 400 of them are on the rear wheel. * Now the next big problem is insurance since im looking for a fun ride and posably a cheaper insurance rate then my Gsxr Im trying to stay below the 500 mark. Unfortunitly thats hard to do and still have the amount of power and life that i want out of a street engine. Idely i want a bike that is great racing but then also i snap on the lights and im out on the road riding around. Easyer said then done.
12-12-2003, 02:41 AM
#13
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Not to be a dick or anything, but have you even been watching the AMA series? DOUG HENRY( a pro) has been running slicks, he didnt score them he didnt take a razor to them, they are slicks.
He didnt run them the whole season, but the first time he did he WON the race. I wasnt telling him to run slicks, but it has been done and with proven results. No disrespect to anyone, im just saying check it out if you dont believe me.
And of course slicks on the street is a bad idea, only NASCAR guys would do that
He didnt run them the whole season, but the first time he did he WON the race. I wasnt telling him to run slicks, but it has been done and with proven results. No disrespect to anyone, im just saying check it out if you dont believe me.
And of course slicks on the street is a bad idea, only NASCAR guys would do that
12-12-2003, 02:53 AM
#14
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Another thing, your husky came from the factory that way? It was designed to be ridden on the street, my dad and i built a YSR50 and put a YZ426 engine in it. That engine and any other dirtbike engine is built for RACING ONLY, not the street. Stop and go riding is all they are good for, you hold the throttle open at any position for too long and its gonna give you problems.
I wanted to make our YSR street legal but my old man told me it couldnt be done because of the fits it would give you. Another bike we built was a YSR with an 01 CR250 in it and that guy tried riding it on the street and kept complaining about it because it would spit and sputter on him after about 15 minutes of being out on the road. And just so no one thinks im full of
check this site out.
http://www.ticeman.com/index2.html
I wanted to make our YSR street legal but my old man told me it couldnt be done because of the fits it would give you. Another bike we built was a YSR with an 01 CR250 in it and that guy tried riding it on the street and kept complaining about it because it would spit and sputter on him after about 15 minutes of being out on the road. And just so no one thinks im full of
check this site out. http://www.ticeman.com/index2.html
12-12-2003, 06:27 AM
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If you guys are stuffing those motors in those bikes you are certified nuts. 
I don't like high strung motors. They give me problems. Stockers all the way.
I just wanted it to be known that big singles can be ridden on the street without any problems. I did over 8000 miles on mine in one season and all it needed were oil changes every 1000 miles and valve adjustments when they got noisy. Tires too. That Husky would eat a rear tire.
I don't like high strung motors. They give me problems. Stockers all the way.
I just wanted it to be known that big singles can be ridden on the street without any problems. I did over 8000 miles on mine in one season and all it needed were oil changes every 1000 miles and valve adjustments when they got noisy. Tires too. That Husky would eat a rear tire.
12-12-2003, 07:43 AM
#16
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So right now im thinking the best or better way to go might be to find a KTM 525 or 640 then turn it to a street motard and ride that, may not be the best on the race track but hell last summer i watched 2 very very fast riders go out, one on an totaly tricked out R1 and one on a pritty much stock Kawasaki zx636 and the zx raped the R1 ever where. So i guess it has alot to do with the rider heh 
i will make a ktm 640 beat a yz450 in a motard race even if i have to let all the air out of his tires 
i will make a ktm 640 beat a yz450 in a motard race even if i have to let all the air out of his tires
12-12-2003, 07:54 AM
#17
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Check this out a KTM 660 motard unfortunitly it goes over the 600 mark costing massive more insurance. But wow
If the picture dosent show just look here
http://www.spinnin-wheel.com/bilder%...r_03/index.htm
If the picture dosent show just look here
http://www.spinnin-wheel.com/bilder%...r_03/index.htm
12-12-2003, 05:05 PM
#19
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Originally posted by PRZFYTR43
I bet that Husky did. Any tickets on it? That thing looked nice man that had to be some fun ****!! Why'd you get rid of it?
I bet that Husky did. Any tickets on it? That thing looked nice man that had to be some fun ****!! Why'd you get rid of it?
I got rid of it because parts availability was getting to be a hassle. Husky was damn near bankrupt and not shipping parts for the bike to the U.S. anymore.
Another reason was my kids are getting old enough to ride in the dirt so I am off the street to concentrate on getting them interested in bikes. There will be plenty of time to ride street down the road but right now I want to ride with them.
Here is a side shot of it after I had it painted.
12-12-2003, 05:20 PM
#20
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Originally posted by PRZFYTR43
Not to be a dick or anything, but have you even been watching the AMA series? DOUG HENRY( a pro) has been running slicks, he didnt score them he didnt take a razor to them, they are slicks.
Not to be a dick or anything, but have you even been watching the AMA series? DOUG HENRY( a pro) has been running slicks, he didnt score them he didnt take a razor to them, they are slicks.
After I spoke with Doug Henry's mechanic on another site the other day I have a clearer understanding of how to GROOVE tires properly. He explained how they leave the slick untouched except where they will be doing the majority of the dirt. If the dirt is a high speed straight,groove the center. If they will be doing left handers,groove that side and so on.
I had a great picture of a slick that was grooved like ladder rungs right up the center of the tire leaving it a slick on the sides. I don't know where it is now. Sorry.
I do know what I am speaking of,not trying to be a dick(your word,not mine). I am just trying to teach so others don't make the same mistakes I made when trying to learn about supermoto a couple of years ago when no one else was doing it in this country.
PRZFYTR43, if you want a couple of links to the supermoto boards I frequent,I will drop them to you in a PM. Let me know. One of them is out of Europe and those guys know thier stuff. Most of them have been at it for quite a while.
