Exhaust Pop
03-29-2003, 06:46 PM
#1
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Exhaust Pop
Hi all,
I have a HMF high mount slip-on on my R6. I also had the timing advanced.
The bike sounds and runs great. The dealer that installed the pipe said it looked fine on the dyno and didn't need to be jetted. She’s now putting out 108 hp.
The only thing I have noticed is when I run the rpms up and don't shift because of traffic or what not I get small backfire pops. Is this typical with all pipes or would a jet kit eliminate this?
Thanks for any advice.
I have a HMF high mount slip-on on my R6. I also had the timing advanced.
The bike sounds and runs great. The dealer that installed the pipe said it looked fine on the dyno and didn't need to be jetted. She’s now putting out 108 hp.
The only thing I have noticed is when I run the rpms up and don't shift because of traffic or what not I get small backfire pops. Is this typical with all pipes or would a jet kit eliminate this?
Thanks for any advice.
Last edited by Kory_R6; 03-29-2003 at 06:52 PM.
03-29-2003, 07:03 PM
#2
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,651
Re: Exhaust Pop
Originally posted by Kory_R6
Hi all,
I have a HMF high mount slip-on on my R6. I also had the timing advanced.
The bike sounds and runs great. The dealer that installed the pipe said it looked fine on the dyno and didn't need to be jetted. She’s now putting out 108 hp.
The only thing I have noticed is when I run the rpms up and don't shift because of traffic or what not I get small backfire pops. Is this typical with all pipes or would a jet kit eliminate this?
Thanks for any advice.
Hi all,
I have a HMF high mount slip-on on my R6. I also had the timing advanced.
The bike sounds and runs great. The dealer that installed the pipe said it looked fine on the dyno and didn't need to be jetted. She’s now putting out 108 hp.
The only thing I have noticed is when I run the rpms up and don't shift because of traffic or what not I get small backfire pops. Is this typical with all pipes or would a jet kit eliminate this?
Thanks for any advice.
03-29-2003, 07:51 PM
#4
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,651
BLK Smoke
[
How would I know if it’s running rich through the entire range? Continuous pop during deceleration no matter what the RPMs are at? [/B][/QUOTE]
If you're running rich, your going to misfire , which leads to your popping effect. If you're not popping all the time all over the place, all is good. You can lean out your fuel usage (Jetting), but that may be more of a hassle if the popping is minor.
How would I know if it’s running rich through the entire range? Continuous pop during deceleration no matter what the RPMs are at? [/B][/QUOTE]
If you're running rich, your going to misfire , which leads to your popping effect. If you're not popping all the time all over the place, all is good. You can lean out your fuel usage (Jetting), but that may be more of a hassle if the popping is minor.
03-30-2003, 06:47 PM
#6
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From what your saying, sounds lean to me. If you put a slip on and an ignition advancer with no jet kit that should make a lean condtion. BVRiders is right, when a bike is too rich it will backfire. However you described a pop not a backfire and most pops come from a lean condition. "Lean POP" You said when going threw the gears and in traffic then it pops. Now does that mean you run it up to like 8,000 rpm and then just let the engine wind down then you get the pops? While the engine is spinnig down and throttle is off.
If that is the case here's what's happening. Your at full OFF throttle and these bikes come with very lean stock jetting especially at just off closed throttle or closed throttle conditions. Emission reasons. With the pipe this increases the lean condition. The lean mixture goes threw the engine unburnt and builds up in your exhaust system then burns suddenly "POP." Not a big deal lean engines run a little stronger. With this being a water cooled engine and not reliying so much on the fuel mixture to keep it cool and with your 600 getting 108HP I wouldn't change a thing. Unless you have a just off idle stutter then you could just fatten up your pilot jet to take care of that problem.
If that is the case here's what's happening. Your at full OFF throttle and these bikes come with very lean stock jetting especially at just off closed throttle or closed throttle conditions. Emission reasons. With the pipe this increases the lean condition. The lean mixture goes threw the engine unburnt and builds up in your exhaust system then burns suddenly "POP." Not a big deal lean engines run a little stronger. With this being a water cooled engine and not reliying so much on the fuel mixture to keep it cool and with your 600 getting 108HP I wouldn't change a thing. Unless you have a just off idle stutter then you could just fatten up your pilot jet to take care of that problem.
03-30-2003, 07:07 PM
#7
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Schwartz is right on. I was told that if you get a pop when cutting the throttle from higher rpm's it is a lean cond. This is cuz when u cut the throttle the needle drops back in the main jet and the pilot does more work at this point. Richen the pilot if this is what u have. my .02
03-30-2003, 11:15 PM
#8
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I'm gonna agree with Schwartz on this one also. (What's up, Matt!!!!) You can try to get rid of the pop pretty easily by adjusting the fuel mixture screws on the bottom of each carb. This screw changes idle mixture on the bike, usually eliminating a pop when going from higher rpm to closed or almost closed throttle. Start by turning each screw all the way in lightly, and then backing them out 3 turns.
03-31-2003, 02:59 AM
#9
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Thanks for the replys guys.
Schwartz nailed it. The only time I get any pop is when I totally let off of the throtle after having the RPMs up. The rest of the time she runs and sounds sweet.
I am not realy mechanically inclined so I don't want to mess with the carbs. The bike doesen't have any type of stutter at all so I think I am going to leave it as is. That is unless the lean top end could damage my engine.
Thanks again for all of the info.
Schwartz nailed it. The only time I get any pop is when I totally let off of the throtle after having the RPMs up. The rest of the time she runs and sounds sweet.
I am not realy mechanically inclined so I don't want to mess with the carbs. The bike doesen't have any type of stutter at all so I think I am going to leave it as is. That is unless the lean top end could damage my engine.
Thanks again for all of the info.
03-31-2003, 10:45 PM
#10
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Yup, DEFINITELY not rich -- no way it could be.
Also, popping on decel is normal EVEN on a tuned bike. Stock bikes do it but you can't hear it because of the quiet nature of the stock exhaust system.
Get your **** tuned. Whoever ran your bike on the dyno is a huge, lying dumbass. Never go back there again.
A totally stock bike will benefit from tuning the carbs... let alone one with any kind of mods -- especially exhaust.
Also, popping on decel is normal EVEN on a tuned bike. Stock bikes do it but you can't hear it because of the quiet nature of the stock exhaust system.
Get your **** tuned. Whoever ran your bike on the dyno is a huge, lying dumbass. Never go back there again.
A totally stock bike will benefit from tuning the carbs... let alone one with any kind of mods -- especially exhaust.
03-31-2003, 11:07 PM
#11
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SMB123 I am a little confused by your post.
You said:
Whoever ran your bike on the dyno is a huge, lying dumbass.
but you also said:
popping on decel is normal EVEN on a tuned bike. Stock bikes do it but you can't hear it because of the quiet nature of the stock exhaust system.
So your saying that the pop on decel is normal but I still need to have the bike tuned to get rid of it?
You said:
Whoever ran your bike on the dyno is a huge, lying dumbass.
but you also said:
popping on decel is normal EVEN on a tuned bike. Stock bikes do it but you can't hear it because of the quiet nature of the stock exhaust system.
So your saying that the pop on decel is normal but I still need to have the bike tuned to get rid of it?
04-13-2003, 04:15 AM
#16
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Yes: anyone that tells you a bike doesn't need tuning with mods is a liar. A stock bike will benefit from proper tuning (bikes come from the factory running lean -- this is why you can do jetwork (or fuel map on FI bikes) and get a benefit with no other modifications).
Also, 108HP is uh.. relative, to say the least. All any dyno is good for is a back to back comparison. Every type of dyno makes different numbers. For isntance, a Factory Pro dyno always makes a lower number than a Dynojet dyno. Moreover, the dyno operator has some part in it.
And yes, popping is normal on tuned bikes. Ever hear a race bike on decel? Pop pop pop pop. With a tuned bike, it's not a problem.. all that happens is that your mixture leans out some and (although this seems like it would be true for rich and not lean) your fuel charge is not being ignited totally.. it gets sucked into the exhaust, then the next combustion ignites the fuel in your exhaust. Pop pop pop.
Running lean, however, is bad. It raises engine temperatures. You lose power because your mixture is not stoichiometric and therefore are not burning as much fuel as can be burned, thus being less efficient. Different people feel differently about whether lean or rich is better -- I am in the "rich is better" camp. While both are bad, a rich mixture will help keep the motor cooler. This means you won't run into problems like detonation, which leads to the horrible, terrible condition known as preignition. I can go into detail about these two, but that's not important to this topic.
And the fact that you have your ignition advanced with a super lean running condition makes it even worse!
You probably can't even hear the popping that well on a tuned bike if you wear a helmet and are going faster than like 40mph. The masking noise of wind and helmet will block the resonance of it. Remember, the sound is going behind you -- all you hear is resonance. You DO hear it because your bike is running like a total piece of **** that's going to hand grenade the motor due to excessive lean conditions which makes it much more pronounced.
The long and short of it:
Research your mods before you do them and you would know that you would need tuning with ANY of these mods.
Don't let those people ever touch your bike because they are full of ****.
Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about. Furthermore, I own a R6.
Anyone that tells you that bikes combustion engines don't pop on decel is lying or just doesn't know better.
Also, 108HP is uh.. relative, to say the least. All any dyno is good for is a back to back comparison. Every type of dyno makes different numbers. For isntance, a Factory Pro dyno always makes a lower number than a Dynojet dyno. Moreover, the dyno operator has some part in it.
And yes, popping is normal on tuned bikes. Ever hear a race bike on decel? Pop pop pop pop. With a tuned bike, it's not a problem.. all that happens is that your mixture leans out some and (although this seems like it would be true for rich and not lean) your fuel charge is not being ignited totally.. it gets sucked into the exhaust, then the next combustion ignites the fuel in your exhaust. Pop pop pop.
Running lean, however, is bad. It raises engine temperatures. You lose power because your mixture is not stoichiometric and therefore are not burning as much fuel as can be burned, thus being less efficient. Different people feel differently about whether lean or rich is better -- I am in the "rich is better" camp. While both are bad, a rich mixture will help keep the motor cooler. This means you won't run into problems like detonation, which leads to the horrible, terrible condition known as preignition. I can go into detail about these two, but that's not important to this topic.
And the fact that you have your ignition advanced with a super lean running condition makes it even worse!
You probably can't even hear the popping that well on a tuned bike if you wear a helmet and are going faster than like 40mph. The masking noise of wind and helmet will block the resonance of it. Remember, the sound is going behind you -- all you hear is resonance. You DO hear it because your bike is running like a total piece of **** that's going to hand grenade the motor due to excessive lean conditions which makes it much more pronounced.
The long and short of it:
Research your mods before you do them and you would know that you would need tuning with ANY of these mods.
Don't let those people ever touch your bike because they are full of ****.
Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about. Furthermore, I own a R6.
Anyone that tells you that bikes combustion engines don't pop on decel is lying or just doesn't know better.
I make my **** pop on purpose
04-16-2003, 10:19 AM
#19
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Holly Sh*t" Bill Nie The science guy" has spoken!!
Oh and the mixture would have to be stoichiometric or it wouldn't run at all. Stoichiometric just means going from one heterogeneous compound to another or even breaking the compound down to basic elements. Might not be the most efficient stoichiometric mixture or compound but it's Stoichiometric all the same.
Kory don't sweat your bikes carberation that much, it's fine. I have never herd of anyone getting a lean condition bad enough from the mods you made, to do any damage to your R6. COuld it benifit from being richer? Sure! But again don't lose sleep over it.
Oh and the mixture would have to be stoichiometric or it wouldn't run at all. Stoichiometric just means going from one heterogeneous compound to another or even breaking the compound down to basic elements. Might not be the most efficient stoichiometric mixture or compound but it's Stoichiometric all the same.
Kory don't sweat your bikes carberation that much, it's fine. I have never herd of anyone getting a lean condition bad enough from the mods you made, to do any damage to your R6. COuld it benifit from being richer? Sure! But again don't lose sleep over it.
04-16-2003, 11:25 PM
#20
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No, stoich means that you have your air/fuel mixture is 100% efficient. You are putting EXACTLY enough gas in to match however much air is going in. Running rich means too much gas, lean means too little. Thus, not stoich.
And if he wants to run that lean, that's his choice. But at the least, he's looking at changing spark plugs often. This is a huge pain in the ***, ESPECIALLY on a R6. Once his plugs start crapping out, it will run even worse, too.
But more likely, he's looking at detonation. A motor can run for quite some time with detonation.. but eventually it takes it's toll. And if it becomes too severe, it turns into preignition. Preignition happens due to detonation. Basically, something gets so hot that it acts like a glow plug. So, for example, the electrodes on the spark plug has so much heat that as SOON as a mixture gets drawn into the cylinder it's combusting. This is where the REAL damage happens.. broken ring lands on pistons, burning holes in the tops of pistons, etc.
But, more importantly, his bike probably just runs shitty. The throttle response is likely poor, it probably has hesitation, has a rough powercurve, etc. The reason you do the mods that he did is to get the most out of the powerband... he's effectively getting the worst out of it.
Long story short: go to www.ivansperofrmanceproducts.com and buy his kit. Hands down THE BEST kit for a R6. The Dynojet and Factory Pro 1.0 kits suck. They don't replace the main air and pilot air jets. These jets are pressed in. To replace them, you have to drill them out, tap the carbs for jets, and put new jets in. Ivans kit includes the drill bit and tap for this. And the difference between his kit and the others is HUGE. His needles are also excellent. ****, the shims he includes for the needles are super high precision that cost 5x as much as the crap you get with a Dynojet kit. The best part is he provides ALL his own tech support.
The Factory 1.7 is more or less the same as the Ivans kit.. but I have no personal experience and Ivan's is more popular. Factory Pro has a good website with lots of tuning info and decent tech support. I think the kits cost about the same.. but Ivan's is just more popular.
And if he wants to run that lean, that's his choice. But at the least, he's looking at changing spark plugs often. This is a huge pain in the ***, ESPECIALLY on a R6. Once his plugs start crapping out, it will run even worse, too.
But more likely, he's looking at detonation. A motor can run for quite some time with detonation.. but eventually it takes it's toll. And if it becomes too severe, it turns into preignition. Preignition happens due to detonation. Basically, something gets so hot that it acts like a glow plug. So, for example, the electrodes on the spark plug has so much heat that as SOON as a mixture gets drawn into the cylinder it's combusting. This is where the REAL damage happens.. broken ring lands on pistons, burning holes in the tops of pistons, etc.
But, more importantly, his bike probably just runs shitty. The throttle response is likely poor, it probably has hesitation, has a rough powercurve, etc. The reason you do the mods that he did is to get the most out of the powerband... he's effectively getting the worst out of it.
Long story short: go to www.ivansperofrmanceproducts.com and buy his kit. Hands down THE BEST kit for a R6. The Dynojet and Factory Pro 1.0 kits suck. They don't replace the main air and pilot air jets. These jets are pressed in. To replace them, you have to drill them out, tap the carbs for jets, and put new jets in. Ivans kit includes the drill bit and tap for this. And the difference between his kit and the others is HUGE. His needles are also excellent. ****, the shims he includes for the needles are super high precision that cost 5x as much as the crap you get with a Dynojet kit. The best part is he provides ALL his own tech support.
The Factory 1.7 is more or less the same as the Ivans kit.. but I have no personal experience and Ivan's is more popular. Factory Pro has a good website with lots of tuning info and decent tech support. I think the kits cost about the same.. but Ivan's is just more popular.
