Vote Bush
03-04-2004, 03:37 PM
#41
u of m still sux
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Detroit
Age: 43
Posts: 2,351
Re: Vote Bush
An Open Letter from Michael Moore to George "I'm a War President!" Bush
Dear Mr. Bush,
Thank you for providing the illegible Xeroxed partial payroll sheets (or whatever they were) yesterday covering a few of your days in the National Guard. Now we know that, not only didn't you complete your tour of duty, you were actually paid for work you never did. Did you cash those checks? Wouldn't that be, um, illegal?
Watching the press aggressively demand the truth from your press secretary -- and refusing to accept the deceit, the dodging, and the cover-up -- was a sight to behold, something we really haven't seen since you took office (to watch or listen to the entire press conference, or to read the full transcript, go here).
More than one reporter pointed out that those pieces of paper your press secretary waved at them yesterday mean nothing. Even if they aren't forged documents, getting paid does not necessarily mean you showed up to do your duties. As retired Army Col. Dan Smith, a 26-year veteran, told the AP:
"Pay records don't mean anything except that you're in or you're out," said Smith. "It doesn't necessarily reflect what duty you've actually performed because pay records simply record your unit of assignment and then all of your pay and benefits per pay period."
Mr. Bush, this issue is not going to go away -- and I think yesterday's actions just dug you into a deeper hole. You're probably wondering why the heck this story won't just die. You probably thought that after I brought it up last month and then got slammed by Peter Jennings for uttering the "d" word, the whole matter would just disappear as fast as a bag of blow being thrown out the window of a speeding car on a deserted Maine highway.
But your "desertion" didn't go away -- and here's the reason why. You have sent countless numbers of our sons and daughters in the National Guard to their deaths in the last 11 months. You did this while misleading their parents and the nation with bogus lies about weapons of mass destruction and scary phony Saddam ties to al Qaeda. You sent them off to a never-ending war so that your benefactors at Halliburton and the oil companies could line their pockets. And then you had the audacity to prance around in a soldier's uniform on an aircraft carrier proclaiming "Mission Accomplished" -- while the cameras from your re-election campaign ad agency rolled.
THAT is what makes this whole business of your being AWOL so despicable, and makes the grief-stricken relatives want to turn away from you in disgust. The reason your skipping-out on your enlistment didn't matter in the 2000 election was because we were not at war. Being stuck in a deadly, daily quagmire now in 2004 makes your military history-fiction and your fly-boy costume VERY relevant.
You still have not answered the questions surrounding your National Guard "service." Let me repeat them as simply as I can for you (all of them based on the investigative work of the Associated Press and the Boston Globe):
1. How were you able to jump ahead of 500 other applicants to get into the Texas Air National Guard, thus guaranteeing you would not have to go to Vietnam? What calls did your father (who was then a United States Congressman representing Texas) make on your behalf for you to get this assignment?
2. Why were you grounded (not allowed to fly) after you either failed your physical or failed to take it in July 1972? Was there a reason you were afraid to take the physical? Or, did you take it and not pass it? If so, why didn't you pass it? Was it the urine test? The records show that, after the Guard spent years and lots of money training you to be a pilot, you never flew for the rest of your time in the Guard. Why?
3. Can you produce one person who can verify that he served with you in the Guard during the year that your Texas commanders said you did not show up? Why have you failed to bring forth anyone who served with you in the Guard while you were in Alabama? Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PERSON come forward?
4. Can you tell us what you did when you claim to have shown up in Alabama for Guard duty? What were your duties? You were grounded, so what did they have you do instead?
5. Where are the sign-up sheets that would have your name and service number on them for each weekend you showed up? Aaron Brown on CNN told us how, when he was in the reserves, he had to sign in each time he reported, and his guest from the Washington Post said, that's right, and there would be "four copies of that record" in the files of various agencies. Will you ask those agencies to release those records?
6. If you were in fact paid for that time when you apparently went AWOL, will you authorize the IRS to release your 1972-73 tax returns?
7. How did you get an honorable discharge? What strings were pulled? Who called who?
Look, I'm sorry to have put you through all this. I was just goofing around when I made that comment about wanting to see a debate between the general and the deserter. I had no idea that it would lead to this. And there you were, having to suffer through Tim Russert on Sunday, saying weird things like "I'm a war president!" I guess you believe that, or you want us to believe that. Americans have never voted out a Commander-in-Chief during a war. I guess that's what you're hoping for. You need the war.
But we don't. And our troops in the National Guard don't either. I know you see the writing on the wall, so why not come clean now? We are a forgiving people, and though you will not be returned to White House, you will find us grateful for a little bit of truth. Answer our questions, apologize to the nation, and bring our kids home.
Yours,
Michael Moore
Dear Mr. Bush,
Thank you for providing the illegible Xeroxed partial payroll sheets (or whatever they were) yesterday covering a few of your days in the National Guard. Now we know that, not only didn't you complete your tour of duty, you were actually paid for work you never did. Did you cash those checks? Wouldn't that be, um, illegal?
Watching the press aggressively demand the truth from your press secretary -- and refusing to accept the deceit, the dodging, and the cover-up -- was a sight to behold, something we really haven't seen since you took office (to watch or listen to the entire press conference, or to read the full transcript, go here).
More than one reporter pointed out that those pieces of paper your press secretary waved at them yesterday mean nothing. Even if they aren't forged documents, getting paid does not necessarily mean you showed up to do your duties. As retired Army Col. Dan Smith, a 26-year veteran, told the AP:
"Pay records don't mean anything except that you're in or you're out," said Smith. "It doesn't necessarily reflect what duty you've actually performed because pay records simply record your unit of assignment and then all of your pay and benefits per pay period."
Mr. Bush, this issue is not going to go away -- and I think yesterday's actions just dug you into a deeper hole. You're probably wondering why the heck this story won't just die. You probably thought that after I brought it up last month and then got slammed by Peter Jennings for uttering the "d" word, the whole matter would just disappear as fast as a bag of blow being thrown out the window of a speeding car on a deserted Maine highway.
But your "desertion" didn't go away -- and here's the reason why. You have sent countless numbers of our sons and daughters in the National Guard to their deaths in the last 11 months. You did this while misleading their parents and the nation with bogus lies about weapons of mass destruction and scary phony Saddam ties to al Qaeda. You sent them off to a never-ending war so that your benefactors at Halliburton and the oil companies could line their pockets. And then you had the audacity to prance around in a soldier's uniform on an aircraft carrier proclaiming "Mission Accomplished" -- while the cameras from your re-election campaign ad agency rolled.
THAT is what makes this whole business of your being AWOL so despicable, and makes the grief-stricken relatives want to turn away from you in disgust. The reason your skipping-out on your enlistment didn't matter in the 2000 election was because we were not at war. Being stuck in a deadly, daily quagmire now in 2004 makes your military history-fiction and your fly-boy costume VERY relevant.
You still have not answered the questions surrounding your National Guard "service." Let me repeat them as simply as I can for you (all of them based on the investigative work of the Associated Press and the Boston Globe):
1. How were you able to jump ahead of 500 other applicants to get into the Texas Air National Guard, thus guaranteeing you would not have to go to Vietnam? What calls did your father (who was then a United States Congressman representing Texas) make on your behalf for you to get this assignment?
2. Why were you grounded (not allowed to fly) after you either failed your physical or failed to take it in July 1972? Was there a reason you were afraid to take the physical? Or, did you take it and not pass it? If so, why didn't you pass it? Was it the urine test? The records show that, after the Guard spent years and lots of money training you to be a pilot, you never flew for the rest of your time in the Guard. Why?
3. Can you produce one person who can verify that he served with you in the Guard during the year that your Texas commanders said you did not show up? Why have you failed to bring forth anyone who served with you in the Guard while you were in Alabama? Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PERSON come forward?
4. Can you tell us what you did when you claim to have shown up in Alabama for Guard duty? What were your duties? You were grounded, so what did they have you do instead?
5. Where are the sign-up sheets that would have your name and service number on them for each weekend you showed up? Aaron Brown on CNN told us how, when he was in the reserves, he had to sign in each time he reported, and his guest from the Washington Post said, that's right, and there would be "four copies of that record" in the files of various agencies. Will you ask those agencies to release those records?
6. If you were in fact paid for that time when you apparently went AWOL, will you authorize the IRS to release your 1972-73 tax returns?
7. How did you get an honorable discharge? What strings were pulled? Who called who?
Look, I'm sorry to have put you through all this. I was just goofing around when I made that comment about wanting to see a debate between the general and the deserter. I had no idea that it would lead to this. And there you were, having to suffer through Tim Russert on Sunday, saying weird things like "I'm a war president!" I guess you believe that, or you want us to believe that. Americans have never voted out a Commander-in-Chief during a war. I guess that's what you're hoping for. You need the war.
But we don't. And our troops in the National Guard don't either. I know you see the writing on the wall, so why not come clean now? We are a forgiving people, and though you will not be returned to White House, you will find us grateful for a little bit of truth. Answer our questions, apologize to the nation, and bring our kids home.
Yours,
Michael Moore
03-04-2004, 03:46 PM
#42
u of m still sux
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Detroit
Age: 43
Posts: 2,351
Re: Vote Bush
Turkeys on the Moon... from Michael Moore
Dear Mr. Bush,
Well, it's going on two weeks now since your surprise visit to one of the two countries you now run and, I have to say, I'm still warmed by the gesture. Man, take me along next time! I understand only 13 members of the media went with you -- and it turns out only ONE of them was an actual reporter for a newspaper. But you did take along FIVE photographers (hey, I get it, screw the words, it's all about the pictures!), a couple wire service guys, and a crew from the Fox News Channel (fair and balanced!).
Then, I read in the paper this weekend that that big turkey you were holding in Baghdad (you know, the picture that's supposed to replace the now-embarrassing footage of you on that aircraft carrier with the sign "Mission Accomplished") -- well, it turns out that big, beautiful turkey of yours was never eaten by the troops! It wasn't eaten by anyone! That's because it wasn't real! It was a STUNT turkey, brought in to look like a real edible turkey for all those great camera angles.
Now I know some people will say you are into props (like the one in the lower extremities of your flyboy suit), but hey, I get it, this is theater! So what if it was a bogus turkey? The whole trip was bogus, all staged to look like "news." The fake honey glaze on that bird wasn't much different from the fake honey glaze that covers this war. And the fake stuffing in the fake bird was just the right symbol for our country during these times. America loves fake honey glaze, it loves to be stuffed, and, dammit, YOU knew that -- that's what makes you so in touch with the people you lead!
It was also a good idea that you made the "press" on that trip to Baghdad pull the shades down on the plane. No one in the media entourage complained. They like the shades pulled and they like to be kept in the dark. It's more fun that way. And, when you made them take the batteries out of their cell phones so they wouldn't be able to call anyone, and they dutifully complied -- that was genius! I think if you had told them to put their hands on their heads and touch their noses with their tongues, they would have done that, too! That's how much they like you. You could have played "Simon Says" the whole way over there. It wouldn't have been that much different from "Karl Says," a game they LOVE to play every day with Mr. Rove.
Well, if you're planning any surprises for Christmas, don't forget to include me. When I heard last week that you wanted to send a man back to the moon, I thought, get the fake goose ready -- that's where ol' George is going for the holidays! I don't blame you, what with nearly 3 million jobs disappeared, and a $281 billion surplus disappeared, and the USA stuck in a war that will never end -- who wouldn't want to go to the moon! This time, take ALL the media with you! Embed them on the moon! They'll love it there! It looks just like Crawford! You can golf on the moon, too. You'll have so much fun up there, you might not want to come back. Better take Cheney with you, too. Pretend it's a medical experiment or something. "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every American who's sick and tired of all this crap."
Yours,
Michael Moore
Dear Mr. Bush,
Well, it's going on two weeks now since your surprise visit to one of the two countries you now run and, I have to say, I'm still warmed by the gesture. Man, take me along next time! I understand only 13 members of the media went with you -- and it turns out only ONE of them was an actual reporter for a newspaper. But you did take along FIVE photographers (hey, I get it, screw the words, it's all about the pictures!), a couple wire service guys, and a crew from the Fox News Channel (fair and balanced!).
Then, I read in the paper this weekend that that big turkey you were holding in Baghdad (you know, the picture that's supposed to replace the now-embarrassing footage of you on that aircraft carrier with the sign "Mission Accomplished") -- well, it turns out that big, beautiful turkey of yours was never eaten by the troops! It wasn't eaten by anyone! That's because it wasn't real! It was a STUNT turkey, brought in to look like a real edible turkey for all those great camera angles.
Now I know some people will say you are into props (like the one in the lower extremities of your flyboy suit), but hey, I get it, this is theater! So what if it was a bogus turkey? The whole trip was bogus, all staged to look like "news." The fake honey glaze on that bird wasn't much different from the fake honey glaze that covers this war. And the fake stuffing in the fake bird was just the right symbol for our country during these times. America loves fake honey glaze, it loves to be stuffed, and, dammit, YOU knew that -- that's what makes you so in touch with the people you lead!
It was also a good idea that you made the "press" on that trip to Baghdad pull the shades down on the plane. No one in the media entourage complained. They like the shades pulled and they like to be kept in the dark. It's more fun that way. And, when you made them take the batteries out of their cell phones so they wouldn't be able to call anyone, and they dutifully complied -- that was genius! I think if you had told them to put their hands on their heads and touch their noses with their tongues, they would have done that, too! That's how much they like you. You could have played "Simon Says" the whole way over there. It wouldn't have been that much different from "Karl Says," a game they LOVE to play every day with Mr. Rove.
Well, if you're planning any surprises for Christmas, don't forget to include me. When I heard last week that you wanted to send a man back to the moon, I thought, get the fake goose ready -- that's where ol' George is going for the holidays! I don't blame you, what with nearly 3 million jobs disappeared, and a $281 billion surplus disappeared, and the USA stuck in a war that will never end -- who wouldn't want to go to the moon! This time, take ALL the media with you! Embed them on the moon! They'll love it there! It looks just like Crawford! You can golf on the moon, too. You'll have so much fun up there, you might not want to come back. Better take Cheney with you, too. Pretend it's a medical experiment or something. "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for every American who's sick and tired of all this crap."
Yours,
Michael Moore
03-04-2004, 04:01 PM
#44
I Chose to No Longer Post
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ny
Posts: 181
Re: Vote Bush
I will never vote for Dubya, or any Bush and here is why...........
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
03-04-2004, 04:12 PM
#45
u of m still sux
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Detroit
Age: 43
Posts: 2,351
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by upstateR6
I will never vote for Dubya, or any Bush and here is why...........
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
03-04-2004, 04:22 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Manville, RI
Age: 48
Posts: 376
Re: Vote Bush
1. I cannot speak on this, I have not looked into it. But there are a lot of things that Bush does that I do not like. But the major issue(IMO) he is dead on.
2. I have seen the adds and I think they are very tasteful and positive in their message. This is something the country went through together under his power. People would be screaming if he didn't....WTF he doesn't have anything to say about 9/11 or WTC???? But this is def. an opinion, with no wrong answer on this subject.
3. I agree 100% on his whole Christian Co-allition(sp?) BUT, he is doing this to try to raise the values in this country. Which is not a bad thing.
4. He was talking about the war itself. Everybody said from the begining that the war was going to be the easy part.
5. I post a couple of reasons in some of my posts. Iraq's threat was not their military. The threat is that Saddam supported terrorist networks, he was working on a nuclear program, he broke EVERY agreement with the UN and could not be trusted. Pretty much gave the hole world the finger for the last 12 years.
"Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! "
This could not be further from the truth.
> >Subject: FW: F rom the Commanding Officer at MWSS-171 to his Marines.
> >Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:08:36 -0800
> >
> >
> >Marines and Sailors,
> >
> > As we approach the end of the year I think it is important
> >to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly,
> >in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about
> >what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing
> >the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes
> >100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to
> >execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are
> >a part of I would call your attention to two things:
> >
> >1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.
> >2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes
> > the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.
> >
> >Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...
> >
> >... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on
active
> >duty.
> >
> >... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
> >
> >... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.
> >
> >... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
> >
> >... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding
the
> >prewar average.
> >
> >... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are
open,
> >as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
> >
> >... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500
> >more than scheduled.
> >
> >... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
> >
> >... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
> >
> >... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under
Saddam.
> >
> >... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
> >tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
> >
> >... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
> >Iraq's children.
> >
> >... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's
27,000
> >kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of
> >farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and
> >women.
> >
> >... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and
> >over two-thirds of the potable water production.
> >
> >... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000
by
> >year-end.
> >
> >... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite
dishes
> >to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and
> >towns.
> >
> >... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
> >customers are opening accounts daily.
> >
> >... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
> >
> >... the central bank is fully independent.
> >
> >... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and
banking
> >laws.
> >
> >... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
> >
> >... satellite TV dishes are legal.
> >
> >... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
> >extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other
> >government spies.
> >
> >... there is no Ministry of Information.
> >
> >... there are more than 170 newspapers.
> >
> >... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
> >
> >... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
> >
> >... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or
> >executive - of a representative government, now does.
> >
> >... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
> >Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when
the
> >city council elected its new chairman.
> >
> >... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional
> >organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
> >
> >... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
> >Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.
> >
> >... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.
> >Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen
> >international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the
Arab
> >League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.
> >The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over
30
> >Iraqi embassies around the world.
> >
> >... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.
> >
> >... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
> >celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
> >
> >... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects,
large
> >and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
> >
> >... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to
the
> >zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force
cooperation,
> >torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
> >
> >... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree
with
> >the government.
> >
> >... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
> >are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
> >
> >... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
> >
> >... Saudis will hold municipal elections.
> >
> >... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
> >
> >... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
> >
> >... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian --
a
> >Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy
and
> >for peace.
> >
> >... Saddam is gone.
> >
> >... Iraq is free.
> >
> >... President Bush has not faltered or failed.
> >
> >... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the
Press
> >corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.
> >
> >Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany
did
> >in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military
deaths
> >from fanatic ****'s, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued
> >for over three years after WWII victory was declared.
> >
> >It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let
> >alone attempt to build something else in its place.
> >
> >Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every
aspect
> >of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction;
and
> >that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this
> >conflict
> >has been a failure.
> >
> >Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our
> >brothers
> >and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could
> >have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush
administration
> >in so short a period of time?
> >
> >These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone
you
> >think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the
story.
> >
> >Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.
> >
> >God Bless you all. Have a great Holiday.
> >
> >Semper Fidelis,
2. I have seen the adds and I think they are very tasteful and positive in their message. This is something the country went through together under his power. People would be screaming if he didn't....WTF he doesn't have anything to say about 9/11 or WTC???? But this is def. an opinion, with no wrong answer on this subject.
3. I agree 100% on his whole Christian Co-allition(sp?) BUT, he is doing this to try to raise the values in this country. Which is not a bad thing.
4. He was talking about the war itself. Everybody said from the begining that the war was going to be the easy part.
5. I post a couple of reasons in some of my posts. Iraq's threat was not their military. The threat is that Saddam supported terrorist networks, he was working on a nuclear program, he broke EVERY agreement with the UN and could not be trusted. Pretty much gave the hole world the finger for the last 12 years.
"Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! "
This could not be further from the truth.
> >Subject: FW: F rom the Commanding Officer at MWSS-171 to his Marines.
> >Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:08:36 -0800
> >
> >
> >Marines and Sailors,
> >
> > As we approach the end of the year I think it is important
> >to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly,
> >in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about
> >what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing
> >the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes
> >100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to
> >execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are
> >a part of I would call your attention to two things:
> >
> >1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.
> >2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes
> > the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.
> >
> >Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...
> >
> >... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on
active
> >duty.
> >
> >... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.
> >
> >... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.
> >
> >... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.
> >
> >... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding
the
> >prewar average.
> >
> >... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are
open,
> >as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.
> >
> >... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500
> >more than scheduled.
> >
> >... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.
> >
> >... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
> >
> >... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under
Saddam.
> >
> >... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
> >tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.
> >
> >... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
> >Iraq's children.
> >
> >... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's
27,000
> >kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of
> >farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and
> >women.
> >
> >... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and
> >over two-thirds of the potable water production.
> >
> >... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000
by
> >year-end.
> >
> >... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite
dishes
> >to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and
> >towns.
> >
> >... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
> >customers are opening accounts daily.
> >
> >... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.
> >
> >... the central bank is fully independent.
> >
> >... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and
banking
> >laws.
> >
> >... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.
> >
> >... satellite TV dishes are legal.
> >
> >... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
> >extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other
> >government spies.
> >
> >... there is no Ministry of Information.
> >
> >... there are more than 170 newspapers.
> >
> >... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.
> >
> >... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.
> >
> >... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or
> >executive - of a representative government, now does.
> >
> >... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
> >Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when
the
> >city council elected its new chairman.
> >
> >... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional
> >organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.
> >
> >... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
> >Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.
> >
> >... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.
> >Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen
> >international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the
Arab
> >League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.
> >The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over
30
> >Iraqi embassies around the world.
> >
> >... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.
> >
> >... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
> >celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.
> >
> >... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects,
large
> >and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.
> >
> >... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to
the
> >zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force
cooperation,
> >torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.
> >
> >... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree
with
> >the government.
> >
> >... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
> >are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.
> >
> >... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.
> >
> >... Saudis will hold municipal elections.
> >
> >... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.
> >
> >... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.
> >
> >... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian --
a
> >Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy
and
> >for peace.
> >
> >... Saddam is gone.
> >
> >... Iraq is free.
> >
> >... President Bush has not faltered or failed.
> >
> >... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the
Press
> >corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.
> >
> >Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany
did
> >in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military
deaths
> >from fanatic ****'s, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued
> >for over three years after WWII victory was declared.
> >
> >It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let
> >alone attempt to build something else in its place.
> >
> >Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every
aspect
> >of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction;
and
> >that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this
> >conflict
> >has been a failure.
> >
> >Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our
> >brothers
> >and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could
> >have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush
administration
> >in so short a period of time?
> >
> >These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone
you
> >think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the
story.
> >
> >Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.
> >
> >God Bless you all. Have a great Holiday.
> >
> >Semper Fidelis,
03-04-2004, 04:26 PM
#47
I Chose to No Longer Post
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ny
Posts: 181
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by ftrain
If I remember correctly it was Clinton who did nothing after the first time the WTC was bombed not Bush. The second time around it was Bush who was in office that was not a coward and went after Osama.
Originally Posted by ftrain
That was one fear of Iraq but it was not the only reason or even the main reason. It is so funny how people get hung up on WMD. It was the only thing we were not able to find. We went after a person who used WMD to kill his own people and go him.
Bush had to make some tough choices but he was not afraid to make choice that will hurt us in the near term to prevent something worse later on. He is working on cleaning up both internal problems in our country and also outside. Clinton was the worst leader for allowing the WTC to be attacked twice and also allowing the companies on the stock market to inflate without any checks. Bush came in and saw what was gooing on and had to bring charges up on a lot of companies and people. Even one of the most loved women Martha he had to go after. Is that going to make him popular No but it is the right thing todo rather then brushing it under the carpet.
03-04-2004, 04:38 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Medford, Ma
Age: 41
Posts: 714
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by Brian_C6
The plan was designed in the later part of Clinton's Admin.... and it was never implimented in time. Gore had full intentions on using it. FYI, It was later implemented on 9/12.
Bush Sucks. We had no right to take Saddam out. Just because we don't agree with how they live over there, doesn't mean we can take him out. Bush is a tyrant and is using America's power to his advatage. He thinks he's the leader of the human race.... not just US......
Bush Sucks. We had no right to take Saddam out. Just because we don't agree with how they live over there, doesn't mean we can take him out. Bush is a tyrant and is using America's power to his advatage. He thinks he's the leader of the human race.... not just US......
The war is completely justified, though this shouldnt be the arguement today because george H. W. bush should have removed him back in 91
As for the "clinton plan with osama" that bush didnt carry out, id put more blame on clinton than bush.
What i think no one mention is that back in 1995 clinton could have taken Osama out, we had him pin-pointed to a small boat in the persian gulf where two apaches(sp) helicopters had him in sight and in aim. The navy asked permission to destroy the ship. The white house told the navy to abort the mission.
I think this subject could be argued endlessly with both clinton and bush getting blame. Clinton probably would have done more with his presidency if the republicans werent so hell bent on removing him. And i think with Bush inherriting an economy that was getting ready to tank, spending alot of money to go after osama in afgahnastan probably didnt seem reasonable at the time because no one fully knew how much damage he could do.
john
03-04-2004, 04:38 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Manville, RI
Age: 48
Posts: 376
Re: Vote Bush
"If I remember correctly, Clinton FOUND and ARRESTED the four terrorists who planned and implemented the attacks. Still in jail today, and I think one was put to death."
Look at the result. This is why the war on terror cannot be fought in a court room.
"Listen to the state of the union 2002 and tell me this wasn't about wmd's"
I did and this was a small part of the speech. Is that all you got out of it?
"The support for this war was about 50/50"
Really? hhmmmm
> Re-evaluating Weapons of Mass Destruction
>
> > "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
> > develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
> That
> > is our bottom line."
> > - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>
> > "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
> > We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
> > destruction program."
> > - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>
> > "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great
> > deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
> > nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the
> > greatest security threat we face."
> > - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>
> > "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
> times
> > since 1983."
> > - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
>
> > "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
> > U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
> > appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
> > effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
> > mass destruction programs."
> > - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle,
> > John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>
> > "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
> > destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
> he
> > has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
> > - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>
> > "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
> > destruction and palaces for his cronies."
> > - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>
> > "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
> > programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
> programs
> > continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
> Saddam
> > continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover
> of
> > a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
> > threaten the United States and our allies."
> > - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
> others,
> > December 5, 2001
>
> > "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
> > threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
> > mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
> destruction
> > and the means of delivering them."
> > - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>
> > "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
> > weapons throughout his country."
> > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> > "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
> > deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam
> is
> > in power."
> > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> > "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
> > developing weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>
> > "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
> > confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
> > biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
> > build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
> > reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
> > - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
>
> > "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
> authority
> > to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
> > that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
> > real and grave threat to our security."
> > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
> >
> > "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
> > aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
> > weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have
> > always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
> > weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>
> > "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
> > every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
> > destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
> > This he has refused to do"
> > - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
>
> > "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
> > that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
> > weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
> > He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including
> al
> > Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
> > Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
> > chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
> > - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
>
> > "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
> > Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
> > capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>
> > "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
> > murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a
> > particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
> > miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
> his
> > continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
> destruction.
> > So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
> real."
> > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
"Who regulates Clear Channel? The Fcc. Who runs the FCC, Mike Powell, Colin Powells son. Who appoints him? Bush! What did Clear Channel care about the FCC for? The FCC regulates how much of the market they can own. So what happened last year? The FCC "deregulated"(watch out for this word) the market allowing Clear Channel to own even MORE channels! What a coincidence!"
You must listen to Howard Stern....
Ok guys, I'm done for today
EXCELLENT DEBATE!!
Look at the result. This is why the war on terror cannot be fought in a court room.
"Listen to the state of the union 2002 and tell me this wasn't about wmd's"
I did and this was a small part of the speech. Is that all you got out of it?
"The support for this war was about 50/50"
Really? hhmmmm
> Re-evaluating Weapons of Mass Destruction
>
> > "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
> > develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
> That
> > is our bottom line."
> > - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>
> > "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
> > We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
> > destruction program."
> > - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>
> > "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great
> > deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use
> > nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the
> > greatest security threat we face."
> > - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>
> > "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
> times
> > since 1983."
> > - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
>
> > "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
> > U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
> > appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
> > effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
> > mass destruction programs."
> > - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle,
> > John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
>
> > "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
> > destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and
> he
> > has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
> > - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>
> > "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
> > destruction and palaces for his cronies."
> > - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>
> > "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
> > programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear
> programs
> > continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
> Saddam
> > continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover
> of
> > a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will
> > threaten the United States and our allies."
> > - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and
> others,
> > December 5, 2001
>
> > "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a
> > threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the
> > mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
> destruction
> > and the means of delivering them."
> > - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>
> > "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
> > weapons throughout his country."
> > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> > "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
> > deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam
> is
> > in power."
> > - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
> > "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
> > developing weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>
> > "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
> > confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
> > biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
> > build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
> > reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
> > - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
>
> > "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
> authority
> > to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
> > that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
> > real and grave threat to our security."
> > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
> >
> > "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
> > aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear
> > weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have
> > always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of
> > weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>
> > "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
> > every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
> > destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.
> > This he has refused to do"
> > - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
>
> > "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
> > that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
> > weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
> > He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including
> al
> > Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
> > Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
> > chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
> > - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
>
> > "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
> > Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing
> > capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
> > - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>
> > "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
> > murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a
> > particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
> > miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to
> his
> > continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass
> destruction.
> > So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
> real."
> > - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
"Who regulates Clear Channel? The Fcc. Who runs the FCC, Mike Powell, Colin Powells son. Who appoints him? Bush! What did Clear Channel care about the FCC for? The FCC regulates how much of the market they can own. So what happened last year? The FCC "deregulated"(watch out for this word) the market allowing Clear Channel to own even MORE channels! What a coincidence!"
You must listen to Howard Stern....
Ok guys, I'm done for today
EXCELLENT DEBATE!!
03-04-2004, 04:40 PM
#50
I Chose to No Longer Post
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ny
Posts: 181
Re: Vote Bush
Big red, on the issue of are they better off, we will have to wait and see, since their are conflicting accounts, and I am not their to see it myself. And try not to just copy and paste something that huge its annoying.
03-04-2004, 04:42 PM
#51
I Chose to No Longer Post
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ny
Posts: 181
Re: Vote Bush
What i think no one mention is that back in 1995 clinton could have taken Osama out, we had him pin-pointed to a small boat in the persian gulf where two apaches(sp) helicopters had him in sight and in aim. The navy asked permission to destroy the ship. The white house told the navy to abort the mission.
03-04-2004, 04:46 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Manville, RI
Age: 48
Posts: 376
Re: Vote Bush
There is no need to wait and see..they are better off. I have not seen anything otherwise..tv/papers/internet. It is agured about the reason we are there but htere is no way you can argue about them being better off.
"What i think no one mention is that back in 1995 clinton could have taken Osama out, we had him pin-pointed to a small boat in the persian gulf where two apaches(sp) helicopters had him in sight and in aim. The navy asked permission to destroy the ship. The white house told the navy to abort the mission. "
I do not know all of the details but this is FACT. Clinton didn't want him cuz he didn't know what to do with him.
"What i think no one mention is that back in 1995 clinton could have taken Osama out, we had him pin-pointed to a small boat in the persian gulf where two apaches(sp) helicopters had him in sight and in aim. The navy asked permission to destroy the ship. The white house told the navy to abort the mission. "
I do not know all of the details but this is FACT. Clinton didn't want him cuz he didn't know what to do with him.
03-04-2004, 04:50 PM
#54
I Chose to No Longer Post
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ny
Posts: 181
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by Bigred875
I do not know all of the details but this is FACT. Clinton didn't want him cuz he didn't know what to do with him.
03-04-2004, 04:53 PM
#55
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Manville, RI
Age: 48
Posts: 376
03-04-2004, 04:53 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Manville, RI
Age: 48
Posts: 376
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by upstateR6
To make a statement that is this important you have to quote a source. This isn't childsplay, this is politics.
03-04-2004, 04:56 PM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Medford, Ma
Age: 41
Posts: 714
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by upstateR6
Out of all the conflicting stories about Clinton/Osama, this is the most rediculous one I have ever heard. Do you have a source?
they had interviews with the pilots, video of the boat and other ****.
I wish i knew the name of the piece, it was good.
john
03-04-2004, 05:12 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: salem nh
Age: 35
Posts: 52
Re: Vote Bush
QUOTE=Brian_[C6]aaahhh. Why don't you ask the Bush Administration about the National Security Plan that the Clinton Admin designed and handed over to them when he took office. The Clinton Admin practically handed over a detailed plan designed to specifically target Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden (btw, this was prior to 9/11). They all but said, "If you don't use this new plan, America will be attacked by some sort of terrorism soon". And what did the Bush Admin do with it? Nothing!!! They did what is typically expected of their Admin.... threw it out and ignored it. The Bush Admin thinks they know everything and from what I've seen.... they don't know ****!!! How are those "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that are pouring out of Iraq? How about Osama Bin Laden.... he's probably chilling with 2Pac on some island laughing about Biggie and WTC. And you ask about that Clinton National Security Plan.... yeah, it was put into effect on 9/12. So who's Bush killing? Bad Guys? Or innocent AMERICAN people?
Plain and Simple... BUSH SUCKS!! Nothing good has come from him or his cabinet. His whole "Regime" thinks they rule the world. You think Dean is an out of control tyrant.... why don't you take a good look at your President? He is a simple minded "Texan" and his "leadership" is ruining our country's reputation globally. He's done nothing but hurt us and our relationships with others with is "Martyr-Like" attitude. I bet 9/11 and Osama would have been dealt with a long time ago if Bush wasn't in office. And because Bush has HORRIBLE foreign relations, no one wants to help us. We can't (and will not) catch Osama alone. No one wants to help and it's because of this idiot we have in office. I Guarantee Osama is caught when Bush leaves office.
Also, if you think by lowering taxes it will make life easier, then you're just as much of an idiot as him. I can't wait for this so called "Leader" to be replaced. Our country is in the same position it was 15 years ago..... and I know how everyone likes to live in reverse. Everything about him and his belief's are wrong. He's, almost single handedly, ruined our natural progression as a country and world leader.
[
QUOTE=Brian_C6]
wheres the proof?
Plain and Simple... BUSH SUCKS!! Nothing good has come from him or his cabinet. His whole "Regime" thinks they rule the world. You think Dean is an out of control tyrant.... why don't you take a good look at your President? He is a simple minded "Texan" and his "leadership" is ruining our country's reputation globally. He's done nothing but hurt us and our relationships with others with is "Martyr-Like" attitude. I bet 9/11 and Osama would have been dealt with a long time ago if Bush wasn't in office. And because Bush has HORRIBLE foreign relations, no one wants to help us. We can't (and will not) catch Osama alone. No one wants to help and it's because of this idiot we have in office. I Guarantee Osama is caught when Bush leaves office.
Also, if you think by lowering taxes it will make life easier, then you're just as much of an idiot as him. I can't wait for this so called "Leader" to be replaced. Our country is in the same position it was 15 years ago..... and I know how everyone likes to live in reverse. Everything about him and his belief's are wrong. He's, almost single handedly, ruined our natural progression as a country and world leader.
[
QUOTE=Brian_C6]wheres the proof?
03-04-2004, 05:46 PM
#59
I Enjoy Posting At StuntLife!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Age: 47
Posts: 2,564
Re: Vote Bush
wow all i can say is what an educational peice, and who say's stuntlife.com shouldn't be viewed or used at work, holy hell you def can learn a lot here 
I love this stuff debates are awesome especially with educated folks.
big red loved that long, long post, you pretty much dropped hook, line, and sinker
I love this stuff debates are awesome especially with educated folks.
big red loved that long, long post, you pretty much dropped hook, line, and sinker
03-04-2004, 07:39 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lemont, IL
Age: 41
Posts: 928
Re: Vote Bush
Originally Posted by upstateR6
I will never vote for Dubya, or any Bush and here is why...........
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
1)Bush is all about helping big business and their is nothing wrong with that BUT, he loves to use the term "deregulation" when talking about Big BI, and here is why...he makes it out to be less restrictions so they end up making more money - which is true, but he leaves out the fact that those regulations are in place to help the little guy protect himself from these huge companies and they are also their to protect the enviroment. Result = Companies are now allowed to pollute much more than under Clinton and it is easier for them to run the little guy out of town. Deregulation my ***.
2) Anyone who takes something as horrible as Sept. 11th and uses it to campaign under is a bastard. Bush is now running campaign ads where he uses 9/11 footage and firefighters etc. and tries to make himself out to be this hero that is protecting us from these terrorists. Give me a break. 9/11 happened in my backyard and I take personal offense to the fact he is trying to use it to get re-elected. It shows a lack of class and respect for those who passed, and should not be used to get elected.
3) I am a catholic but I have a real hard time voting for Jesus freaks. I mean this guy is nuts. He said he beleived God made him president. What the **** is that about? Think about how crazy that is.
4) I have a real problem with him landing on that aircraft carrier in a tail hook landing whereing a full on jumpsuit dressed up like a god damned soldier. Why can't he just admit he was put in the National Guard because of who his father was, and we STILL don't know what happened to him for those months he was missing. On that aircraft carrier, he had a made for TV speech in front of all these REAL soldiers, and in front of a sign that said of all things = "Mission Accomplished". Mission accomplished? Tell that to the hundreds of families who lost their sons/daughters after that speech was made.
5) Why did we go to war with Iraq? If you ask me or if you watched him infront of the U.N. or watched any of his tv speeches, you would say it was because we were told Iraq had all these horrible weapons and were a threat to us. To us!?! Not to Israel which is right next door, but to the USA who is thousands of miles away. If Iraq was so advanced in their military that they threatened OUR security, why is it that that advanced military didn't even get a single plane off the ground when we went in. Doesn't sound to advanced to me.
I could go on all day with this list, but I'm too tired. I hope you gained something from this, and one more thing. Are the people of Iraq better off now? If you ask them, from what Ive seen the general consensous is NO! They had faith in us, then we ****ed up and let the country fall into kaos.
to ryan and brian alsowhat baffles me is how so many ppl touch upon the fact that iraq failed to comply with un sanctions.. last time i checked there was a un resolution that was passed in 1948 that stated there should be an independent palestinian state. but yet its 2004 and plaestine is the only place in the world under occupation. no y is it that the us doesnt step up and enforce regulations on israel. well if u dont know then u should that the us sends something like $3 billion a year in miliatary aid becuz the 2 countries are allies. so if u are there to protect the us which i have yet to c israel do..those who know of an instance please share.. so those who agree and share the same beliefs of the "U.S." ( which if u dont know is run by the Israeli lobby) then u dont need to comply with un sanctions... or is it becuz they were passed 56 years ago that they dont count? oh wait...well we were talking about sanctions from 1992. welll there these things called the oslo accords in 1991, one year after that stated there should be no building of settlements. no dont get me wrong if Iraq was a threat then the us "has a right to defend herself."..hmmm where have i heard that quote b4...oh yeah when president bush comdemed suicide bomb attacks..so plaestinains use thier bodies becuz the rocks failed to work to fight the tanks and the guns that they palestinian army decided not to use..oh yeah thats right they dont have an army only ppl defending thier land and thier god given right to just live.
where was he to condemn Israel when they go into villiages and impose a curfew whenever they feel the need...no need for sources ur looking at one here
...its so funny how ppl can be so ignorant to things happeneing around the world. its becuz u only get to c what those of higher power want u to c. can anyone answer this y is that when the masacre of a palestinian villiage, jenin, occured were cameras not allowed by the isreali govt to film until 3 DAYS LATER. cuz they dont want u to c. like when the book that came out in 1992 was banned in the us and in israel becuz it talked of a scandal in the israeli mossad..wtf books being banned in the us what happened to freedom of speech?! what the U.S. has let them get away with which is called genocide. the camers not being ket in which is another violation of i think dont qoute me but the geneva conventions..( sorry its been a long day ill check it and get back to u)all im saying is b4 we went to war there were no proof of weapons of masss destruction..tho korea on the other hand was a very real threat..y was nothing done there?
